Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to Am I Doing this Right? Morgan and Leslie here, and we hope you guys love this podcast as much as we do.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:08]:
I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:09]:
I was just. I was looking at each of our Spotify episodes and I just discovered that people can comment on Spotify.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:18]:
So I went and looked at all of them, and some of them are really fun and funny. And so this is just an encouragement to, like, keep commenting on Spotify. There's like, some funny. I like hearing what people.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:28]:
Are they all good comments or are some bad?
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:30]:
No, they're all good. I mean, there were some that were like, hey, can you save the eating till the end? And it's like, yeah, okay, great, whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:36]:
But most of them were really fun and, like, sweet. And I like reading comments because I like to know what people think.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:42]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:42]:
And what they want to hear. And if there's stuff that they don't like, then I want to hear that.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:47]:
That's true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:47]:
Like, they were.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:48]:
We can take feedback.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:49]:
We are good at taking feedback.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:51]:
Kind of.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:52]:
Maybe. There were a couple people that were like, I'm here for the yapping at the beginning. And I was like, you guys, there are people that.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:59]:
People are talking about the park on this Spotify.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:02]:
Yes, they are.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:02]:
She's like, mom of 13 years here, and I've never been a park mom. I played board games with my kids, but I cannot stand the park. And then another one said, totally get the thing about parks with playgrounds. So weird, so eerie, so depressing. The pinnacle of suburban living. That is so funny. So true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:19]:
I was reading these and I was like, these are my people.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:21]:
These are my people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:22]:
I just love a. I actually had.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:23]:
Someone, like, directly DM me to my. My personal account about the parks to agree with you. No, she actually said she was like, you should go to the park in the morning. Like, and it's like a coffee in the morning vibe and it's much nicer. And I'm like, I appreciate that, actually.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:40]:
That's interesting. I just feel really seen by a well done comment. Like a thorough, well done, encouraging comment. Even if it's not a great comment, I still feel seen by a thorough comment. So.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:51]:
So, yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:52]:
All that to say whatever you're watching on Spotify, Apple Music, or if it's like a clip that you're seeing online, social media, use your comments and help us understand what you love, understand you better, so that we can serve our Am I doing this right? Community the best.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:10]:
I love that, but I love it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:12]:
Okay. My unpopular opinion comes out of something that we did last night. We had small group last night.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:17]:
This is crazy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:18]:
And we had s'. Mores.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:22]:
Because s' mores are so good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:23]:
S' mores are so good.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:24]:
I wish I had one right now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:26]:
I also wish I. I could eat a. I could eat a s' more almost at all times.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:31]:
However, my unpopular opinion is that I think that uncooked s' mores are just as good as a cooked s'. More. And I'm talking, like, you build the whole thing out. Graham crackers, hard chocolate, unroasted marshmallow, squeeze it into a sandwich. And the textures when you bite, it's hard to bite into it, but the textures when you bite into it, like the crumbly graham cracker and the chewy marshmallow and then like the hard chocolate, it just goes. It. To me, it's just as good as a toasted marshmallow.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:02]:
Oh, my gosh. Many things wrong with that, though.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:06]:
But it was so delicious.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:07]:
No, because listen, like, just even imagine trying to bite into a s' more where the marshmallow is just a roll in a rock.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:16]:
Yeah. That is like the hard part.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:17]:
And you bite into it and it's like, it's shift. It's like it's like plates shifting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:21]:
Yeah. Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:22]:
And that's horrible.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:24]:
Or. Or you try, like, to compress it and then your grandpa.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:27]:
And then it cracks over like that. Actually, like, it gives me chills. It. It's so bad. It's so bad. I can understand maybe like, the taste of it all, but like, then it's. That's like eating dry cereal or like, I don't know, like crunching something up and just trying to make it go down. I don't know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:46]:
I could eat marshmallow all the time.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:49]:
Marshmallows are great by themselves.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:50]:
I love marshmallows. I could eat a bag of jet puffed right now.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:53]:
Just.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:54]:
Just like as is.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:56]:
I also laugh that everybody is like a connoisseur of s'.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:01]:
Mores.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:01]:
Like, when they roast their marshmallows, they're like, oh, no, this is the perfect. Like, Joey came in last night with this, like, golden brown, but it was like, too brown. Like, it was kind of like it had a bunch of like, bumps on the outside. It was like it was too. But he did. I mean, it did crunch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:17]:
But what's your kind?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:19]:
Like, lightly golden brown? Like, I don't want it to, like, I want it to be. There's no trace of like, char.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:24]:
Or you don't want to taste char, but you want it to be melty.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:27]:
And even if it's. There's a point where it gets like too. It's not burned yet, but it's just too done. Yeah, I'm not into that. Yeah, I had a perfect s' more last night.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:38]:
I don't like a sticky finger residue situation either.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:42]:
Oh yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:44]:
So that I try to avoid. That's such a dumb unpopular.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:51]:
So funny. Oh my gosh. Hey, give everybody the baby update. How far are we from the due date?
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:57]:
This feels.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:58]:
We really got to start batching our.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:59]:
Episodes because I know it's.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:01]:
The baby's going to be here and I'm going to be calling you like, hey, I guess we got to shoot a podcast in the hospital because we don't have anything in the can.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:09]:
I know. I. Well, a couple things actually that are all like right at the same time life updates is we are 32 weeks and a few days and that feels pretty crazy cuz the first trimester moved really slow. The second trimester is kind of like normal. You feel relatively normal.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:29]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:29]:
And then this is. It just goes really fast from now on. So like right now I'm at every two weeks. I see the obvious. Once you hit 36 weeks, you're kind of in like baby watch mode where you're not supposed to travel and you see a doctor every single week. Wow. And if you get on TikTok and you're pregnant, which I don't necessarily recommend, you realize how many people go in for their 36 week checkup and then they leave to go straight to the hospital and have a baby. It's also a little like I was.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:58]:
Talking about 32 weeks.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:59]:
Right now I'm 32 weeks. So like in three weeks you could have the baby. You. Yes. Which just feels like what? You know, that's like bizarre.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:10]:
And one of the things that they teach you in the movies that's not true in real life just for anybody who hasn't given birth is they kind of explain it in the movies. Like it's going to be really clear, you know, like you're in a dramatic situation. Your water breaks and there's like a water balloon has just crashed on the floor and now you know, okay, it's time to go to the hospital.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:32]:
That's what I think.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:34]:
It's really not that clear cut. I don't at least so sorry for all the moms that are going to come for me because they actually have had babies. From what it sounds like with my ob, it's not all that clean cut because apparently your w. Apparently the kid from. From la.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:50]:
Apparently.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:51]:
Apparently your water breaking doesn't have to mean it's like water balloon sized water. Like you could leak a little bit and that be considered your amniotic. What you're trying to figure out basically throughout your entire last bit of pregnancy. Tmi Sorry. Is like if you're leaking, is it pee that you don't know you're releasing because that can happen or is it amniotic fluid? And if it's amniotic fluid, that's a problem.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:15]:
Water breaking because.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:17]:
Yes. And once your water breaks, it doesn't. The baby could not come for a little bit of time, but you're like kind of fall like open down there, you know I'm saying like it's like risk of infection. It just. They don't make it sound as clean and simple.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:32]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:33]:
You will know. They kind of make it sound like these are the myriad of things you're watching for. You gotta feel it out. And if you feel any concern, go to labor and delivery. Like, how often will I be at labor and delivery? Because I think I'm giving birth almost. And then they ask like, well, have you had any contractions? I'm like, well, yeah, I have. And they're like, well, how often are they. Is there a pattern to them? Well, no.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:54]:
Okay, that's good.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:55]:
Tell them how you don't like to count it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:57]:
I don't want to count because then I just like, it just makes it too real. Too real. I'm like, if I don't count it, maybe it won't happen anymore. I don't know what to do. Anyways. 32 weeks pregnant. That's where we're at with that. And then we ended up.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:11]:
Are you saying it?
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:12]:
Well, I don't see a reason. I. I'll caveat it by saying, okay. That we have not gotten keys moved in. There's a couple things that still need to go through.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:22]:
Yep.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:23]:
But we're pending on a house. Like we've done everything that we are gonna.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:27]:
Morgan and Benji bought a house.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:29]:
Yep. So barring all the.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:31]:
So awesome.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:31]:
Barring everything.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:32]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:33]:
Works the way we think it's gonna work for sure. We move in in a month and then we have a baby the month after that. So we just decided let's do everything.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:42]:
I love it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:43]:
Life transformative.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:44]:
All at once.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:45]:
All at once. Unless all the same family members that might not know not know that we did that until this episode.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:53]:
Share in the comments Your congratulations. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:57]:
So those are like all the big Life updates. And honestly, that's kind of why I chopped my hair off when. When.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:03]:
Oh, I know. That was so crazy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:05]:
That was why I kind of did it. Like, I was telling your mom last night, I was like, I. She's like, did you cut your hair? Like, a lot of it? I'm like, yeah. I think it was the one thing I could control at that time. Like, it felt like the one thing I have my hands around.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:16]:
You're like, I'm gonna have a baby. I just put an offer in on a house. I'm gonna chop my hair.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:20]:
Like, I need less hair. This is not gonna work.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:22]:
Yeah. No more changes, I guess, until. Yeah, you've done it all. You didn't buy a dog, though.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:27]:
No, that.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:27]:
That would be too much.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:28]:
That would be way too much. That would be chaos.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:31]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:32]:
So.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:32]:
Although I do. I think my unpopular opinion is that I think everybody should own a dog before they have a baby.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:38]:
I think you're probably right. I bet I was gonna say something really controversial.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:46]:
Say it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:47]:
Let me figure out how to say this in a way. I was talking to our friend Jackie two nights ago at dinner because she has a puppy.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:55]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:56]:
There were some things she was saying about puppyhood that make it seem like there are parts to having a puppy that might be harder or worse than having a baby. Cause I don't know. Okay, then the newborn. I guess the way I would say it is like, there's a lot of messes with newborns, too, but at least you have, like, some. Like, it's really only three things.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:19]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:19]:
With a puppy, it's like they're.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:21]:
It's like they're everywhere and running around.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:24]:
That is like, at least a baby can't, like, get a scurry off. You know what I'm saying?
Leslie Johnston [00:10:29]:
I did see, like, this AI video, though, of this baby. Did you see it in the hospital? And it, like, lifts up, and then it gets up and it runs down the hallway.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:37]:
I said that to my family, and I was like, this is so traumatizing. It makes me worry for the old people right now that are on Facebook and they don't know what AI is capable of.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:48]:
I feel like I'm that person. Yeah. The old. The grandma with the bear on her front porch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:54]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:54]:
I was like, this is adorable. I sent it to everybody. I'm like, how crazy is this? She, like, befriended a bear, and it's fake.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:00]:
And I feel bad for all the old people that literally just believe it's a safe place, and they're just like, I know reposting stuff, and I want to call my grandmas and be like, hey, guys, just so you know, not everything you see is.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:10]:
Everything is fake now. Everything is fake.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:12]:
But that little baby, it looks so creepy. Like, crawls off the mom's stomach and just, like, skitters across the hallway like a horror movie. Diaper on his diaper.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:23]:
Oh, it's so funny. Okay, so when I. To comment on your puppy. Comment.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:27]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:28]:
Just to clear the record, I think having a baby is harder.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:31]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:31]:
I've never had a baby, but I just know from watching. Harder. Mostly harder. Hormones also.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:36]:
18 versus, like.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:38]:
Then, like, however long a puppy lasts.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:40]:
I know. Don't say that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:41]:
Depending on the. Depending on the breed.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:43]:
Yeah, depending on the breed.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:43]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:44]:
But I really struggled when I got the dog. Like, I had massive buyer's remorse. I felt like I was just living free. And all of a sudden, I have this puppy that's constantly, like, biting you. Like, it's hurting you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:57]:
Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:57]:
You don't love it. Initially. I mean. Sorry. Maybe some people love their puppies. Initially, I was like, this puppy is so cute. But I do not love him because I can't sleep. Because he's crying all night.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:07]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:07]:
You can't put him up on the bed because then they jump off the bed and hurt themselves.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:11]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:11]:
They have. There's no diaper situation, so they're just going everywhere.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:15]:
Everywhere. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:16]:
And I actually felt like I was going insane.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:18]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:19]:
And I remember putting on my story. I was like, having a puppy is not for, like, the faint of heart.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:23]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:24]:
And a girl I know with three kids goes, I know moms are gonna hate me to say this, but my puppy was harder than any of my babies.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:34]:
She's like, I kind of love that. I kind of love it, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:37]:
And I know it's probably not true. It's just different. But she's like, you don't love a puppy. Like, you love a baby.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:44]:
No.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:45]:
So there's not that, like, instant maternal instinct. And she's like, my baby is like, I fed them. I put the diapers on them all the time. The puppy was crazy and, like, hurting you and all this stuff. And I was like, honestly, that makes me feel so good. But she said, that puppy prepared me for motherhood.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:04]:
See, I think you're probably right. It's great training.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:07]:
Yes. Because I realized I can kind of hate something and grow to be like, I will pay $5,000 to save this animal in a vet.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:15]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:15]:
Like, you can go from such extremes. And I feel like maybe it's just me that needed that lesson. But I kind of was like, honestly, when I had the puppy, I was like, will I ever love a child? Because I am having a really hard time loving this puppy if I can't love a puppy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:30]:
Well, the good news is, like, chemicals that literally physically bond. Yeah. And make you care.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:35]:
But I learned I love that dog so much now that I'll do anything for it. And now I'm like, oh, good. So if I can love this puppy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:43]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:43]:
How much more can I love a baby?
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:45]:
Regimen, routine, responsibility, like, all of those things are essential, I think, to learn. Like, taking care of something.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:53]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:53]:
Is essential to learn before you have a baby.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:55]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:55]:
Because everything about this now is like a routine change and you're responsible for something. So I wish we had done a dog, but we just weren't. I.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:04]:
Time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:05]:
Well, that and you have to have a lot of time. But also I just feel like our space was never. We've never had a space that's. That feels like it's like, oh, this is what a dog wants, you know?
Leslie Johnston [00:14:15]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:15]:
And even like the what we're moving into, the yard isn't like massive yard, but it's at least a yard for a dog to be, you know? So I'm like, now feels like the right time, but also we've missed. We've missed a window. So now we've gotta, like, wait it out.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:30]:
And so now you gotta wait till, like, your child begs for a dog and.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:34]:
And then can make a part of.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:36]:
A chart or something in order to get one. That's what we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:39]:
You also kind of. I kind of want, like, either either you want the baby to grow up knowing the dog, or you want to experience the joy of, like, the baby opening up the dog on Christmas morning or whatever, and then it's like it's theirs. And that's fun, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:53]:
Yeah, that's really fun.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:55]:
So. And then that'll give us some time to like. Okay. Also, though, sorry, this is such a tangent. And everyone's like, you know, we told you to stop yapping so much in the beginning. Whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:02]:
Well, we're not going to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:04]:
We are who we are. We are who we are. I think a dog would make me feel really safe at my house. And this was. This was so bizarre. But I just realized last night I got up to go to the bathroom at, like 2 o' clock in the morning and I can't fall back to sleep, like, right away after I get up. So I just like, scroll and then there's this girl on Tick Tock that was talking about this new kidnapping scheme where people are coming to your windows and they're knocking on your windows and they're saying, hey, you have a flat tire on your car. You get out to go check your flat tire and then you get kidnapped.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:37]:
That's the thing, right?
Leslie Johnston [00:15:38]:
Where is this happening at?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:39]:
I. I don't know. Like, I didn't even. I had to quickly. I was. It was 3 o' clock in the morning and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is the absolute worst time to hear. That's terrible. So I quickly scroll and then I start thinking, like, are our windows locked? Like, we've never opened a window at our house.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:57]:
Like, like thinking like, not the sliding glass door, but like.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:00]:
Yeah, yeah, like just regular windows.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:03]:
Never opened a window before. So I'm like, are they locked? And then I was like, just go, go to sleep. Like, it's not a big deal. You've been. You've stayed here alone like a million times. Whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:11]:
And then I couldn't get out of my head and I had to get up and I went downstairs to every ground level window and tested them. And we have two windows that were literally open. Like, that have been open since we moved into this place two years ago. Oh, my God. And every night we just sleep with those windows open downstairs, ground level. Someone could easily open it up and crawl in and kill me.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:37]:
That is so funny.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:38]:
It was. I felt like I was in a horror movie at 3 o' clock in the morning, just like testing windows and being like, what have I been living? What is going on? I couldn't believe it. That's crazy. I couldn't believe it. We had this crazy.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:48]:
I mean, it goes to show how safe your neighborhood is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:50]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:50]:
So that's good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:51]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:52]:
But, yeah, that's very safe neighborhood. That does feel.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:54]:
But just like, I hate that.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:56]:
That's like when you've slept all night and you wake up and somehow, like, your front door was unlocked and you didn't know and you're like, oh my gosh. How did I not know? Like, this was just open.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:05]:
It feels very violent.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:07]:
It's very unsettling.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:08]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:09]:
I hate that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:09]:
Like, your garage was open.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:11]:
Oh, that has happened to me before.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:14]:
You get home from. From like a day or like, I'll.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:16]:
Wake up all day. Yeah, it was just like open all day or something, which does not happen often.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:21]:
But oh, my gosh, that is.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:23]:
I have, like, security stuff at my house and it'll tell me when it like opens or closes or something. And randomly, like, sometimes it'll be like your garage door just opened. And I'm like, I'm sorry, what? No one's home, but then I'll go home. And it was closed, so I think it's like a glitch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:38]:
But see, that stuff. All this is what horror movies are made of. Got a million ideas. I know. Anyways, there's that.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:45]:
Oh, man.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:46]:
Well, that's good.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:47]:
So many good things. A little banter. So many good things happening in your life right now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:52]:
Yours. Yeah. Well, I mean, yours, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:54]:
Yeah. Got great things tomorrow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:55]:
Speaking at a conference today.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:57]:
You're speaking at something tomorrow, too.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:59]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:59]:
So, you know, just busy bees.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:02]:
Busy bees over here for the holidays.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:04]:
That's right. That's right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:05]:
What are we talking about today?
Leslie Johnston [00:18:07]:
Well, Morgan and I were talking about something that I feel like has been brought up a couple times in the last few months as we've just, like, been in small group and doing rooted and just talking with friends and feeling, like, what to do when you feel like God is being silent or. And even on the flip side, what do you do when, like, you feel like you're silent towards God? Yeah, because I think both sides happen, and I think it's something that everybody experiences. It's something that you see in the Bible where a lot of people experience that and kind of like what to do with that. Have you ever been in a season in your life where you feel like God was really silent, or at least you felt the silence?
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's like either like a silence or it feels like a lack of. A lack of movement, you know, because we talked about this with Jake. Like, the primary ways that you hear from God are like, you know, it kind of depends season to season. Yeah. But you. I remember, and I.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:10]:
I'm sure you've. You've had experiences like this, too, where it feels like there are times where God's just doing so much. Like he's. He's making, you know, little things work together for good. He's. He's, like, speaking to you through people. Or maybe there's just, like, a general Holy Spirit awareness that you have of God's presence. And then there will be seasons where that just feels a little drier, I guess, is the way to describe it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:36]:
It's hard. It's hard to explain. Like, sometimes you just feel very aware of the presence of God, and then sometimes you feel, like, not aware of the presence of God or like you're searching for it and you can't you can't quite pinpoint it or, like, get your hands around it in the same way that you once did.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:52]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:52]:
And that can be really discouraging because your brain goes to all the things that maybe you're doing wrong to. To warrant that. And then, you know, there have been times where. Yeah. Like, you examine your heart and you realize, oh, like, there's like, some sin that I wasn't really thinking through that's maybe causing some separation. So you do the work to kind of clear that up. And then it feels like maybe the Holy Spirit tangibleness is there again. But then there have been times, too, where it's like, it doesn't feel like it's a sin issue.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:22]:
It feels just like a. Like a relationship dynamic change. And that's not to say that you don't have your Bible. It's not to say that you don't have your church community still. It's not to say that you're not, you know, you're not able to be encouraged by what God's speaking in all these other spaces. It's just like. It feels like a dry time between you and God.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:42]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:43]:
And that always feels. That can feel discouraging if it's not something that you are used to feeling or maybe it's your first time feeling it. What did you say when we were with Jake? When we were talking with Jake, what did you say your primary way of hearing from God was?
Leslie Johnston [00:20:59]:
Probably through other people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:02]:
So when you have felt, like, drier seasons, when you feel like God's not speaking as clearly, what does that feel like? Does it feel like. Does it feel like God's being more silent, or does it feel like you're not feeling as much of his presence?
Leslie Johnston [00:21:20]:
Well, I feel like there's been times in my life where I've been like, God, I'm seeking after what you want me to do, whether it's like a job or a relationship or where I'm living, and I've been like, I need you to speak to me. And it felt like he hasn't, which was very weird. Especially, like, coming out of college or even going into college, even deciding where I was gonna go to college. I never felt like any of that was super. Like, oh, God, you know, came down and told me where to go or what to do. And it's hard when you start comparing to other people, because God sometimes does speak to other people in seasons where it doesn't feel like he's speaking to you. So I feel like the. I kind of had to Learn, like, God's not going to audibly speak to me all the time.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:13]:
And sometimes he uses like, his word. He uses people to me. I feel like it's a bunch of different ways, but I feel like in times where it's felt like I am just not hearing from him, it is so discouraging because you're like, I want to do what you want me to do. Like, just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:35]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:36]:
But when he doesn't. Now looking back, like, at the time, it was like I was so frustrated, but looking back, I'm like, I think that I was just telling someone this the other day. It was like, there's so many. Like, I think when we get to heaven someday, I hope. I don't know if this is even biblical, it probably isn't, but I hope that God kind of goes like, hey, let's take a look at your timeline of your life. And like, these things happened here. You had no idea that this was gonna link to this? Or I did this here for this reason. I was felt more silent here.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:08]:
But that developed something in you, or it developed a trust in me that I didn't have before, like in God. And so I wonder, like, in those times where he's felt silent looking, I hope that someday I can look back and go, oh, I see why he did that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:24]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:25]:
And that. And there was a reason for. It wasn't a silent, like, he wasn't there. It was a quietness that maybe he was building up something else in me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:35]:
It's really good. You know, it's a great point. Have you, you know, when you have led a small group before and they always tell you with a small group that you should leave space for silence. Like, don't be afraid of the awkward silence. Yeah, but we're scared of it because we want to not make it awkward for anybody. So if there's, you know, someone asks a question and it's like leaving that very still space for everybody to like, re. Look at their notes or wrestle with it, whatever. And.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:03]:
And it's good to leave the silent space because people are able to have space to think and come to answers or maybe even like bravery to answer out loud for the first time. And I feel like that's kind of a good illustration for maybe what God does with us sometimes that, that there's. There's so many ways that he wants to lead us and instruct us. And maybe not all of those ways include like, step by step manuals where you're constantly being fed.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:33]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:33]:
New information about what you should do. Because in that, if I think about that, like in that, in that kind of a case, if God was just a constant GPS instruction manual where you could pull out your phone and you could see every next step and every turn.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:47]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:48]:
And you were about to take and it was spelled out for you.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:51]:
There's not a lot of call and response, not a lot of faith in that. Not a lot of dialogue really. Because you're kind of just listening to a one sided voice.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:01]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:02]:
And there's no wrestling with it. You know, cuz like when we turn our GPS's on, we just follow the GPS. We're not actually looking around at our surroundings. Like if I. Last night we went to a house that we've been to thousands of times now and. Or not thousands, that's dramatic. But we've been, we've been to it enough for me to know where it is.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:21]:
And I still have to GPS it. And I'm like, this time I'll pay attention. And I did. It's like as soon as the GPS is on, you just.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:27]:
Yeah. You don't think anymore.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:28]:
You autopilot, you don't think anymore. And so I wonder, you know, is it, is it actually a part of God's design that silence is a way that he would speak or encourage or even lead us in a way that, that brings us into a different aspect of our relationship where it's not just filled with like directions where we become mindless, but it's actually filled with space for us to wrestle and think and ask questions to develop faith. But then with that I would make the caveat statement of like, just because God's silent doesn't mean that he's not present. Right. So it's like, it's kind of like with your, with your spouse, with your sister, a best friend, a parent. You don't fill every single second with conversation with someone that you're close to.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:22]:
Right. Like do you have spaces where you're just like we're just gonna sit together. And there's something that's bonding about even those silent moments too. So I think that we, we've tended to put God in this category or box of needing to be like a conveyor belt of things and nuggets and information. But I think that kind of depersonalizes.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:48]:
Him a little bit.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:50]:
That's a great point.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:51]:
I don't know.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:52]:
I think I was talking with someone the other day about kind of like how when you Feel like God's not speaking to you or giving you an answer on something, and, like, what do you do with that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:03]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:04]:
And I think sometimes it's a good reminder that you can walk through doors without feeling like God is saying, walk through this door. Like, you can walk forward in life and trust that if God has a different plan for you or a different thing, he will block it. Like, now, I'm not saying walk into sin. If it's not sin and it's. You feel like it's a good decision, the strength to go, okay, I'm gonna actually have trust and faith in not only God, but the fact that, like, the Holy Spirit lives inside you and that sometimes our own thoughts can actually be the Holy Spirit. I think that's what I've been learning recently. I'm like, oh, the Holy Spirit has always felt confusing to me. And, like, wait, what is the Holy Spirit actually doing? Like, I know the Bible says that it lives inside me, but what does that really look like?
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:57]:
And.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:57]:
And I think sometimes we don't pay attention even to the wisdom that God is giving us and kind of through the Holy Spirit. So it's like you can walk through a door without feeling like, oh, God is saying yes or no, but if. And then trust the fact that, like, he will, you know, push you to the side to a different door or he'll block one completely. Like, having the trust and faith to go, okay, I'm walking in faith. Like, there's a reason it's called walking in faith. It's not standing in faith. Like, I'm just standing here, not doing anything. It's like, no, God wants you to walk forward, move forward and trust him.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:38]:
And then when he wants to speak, he will speak. And I think that's what I have been learning. Like, there was times, like, I honestly kind of don't think God cared where I went to college. Like, maybe he does. But I think at that time, it was like, oh. Like, I just don't feel this, like, strong sense, like, I should go here or there. And some of that might have been, like, I didn't pursue it. I just kind of went where, like, I always thought I would go.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:04]:
And I watched as, like, that was a hard path, partly because I didn't know if I was supposed to be there or not. I think sometimes when you feel like God sent you somewhere, you're like, I'm sticking this out because God sent me here. I didn't feel that way. So I don't know. I mean, that's still Kind of a question mark in my mind. Like, if I had. If I had been like, God, where do youo Want Me to go? And I'll go there, maybe I would have had, like, a little bit of an easier experience. But also maybe that was just, like, the place I walked forward into.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:35]:
And God's like, great, we're gonna learn a lot here. This is gonna be awesome. And then maybe there's other decisions in life where God is like, no, no, no, I have a decision for you in this. Or, like, I have. What do you think about that? I've been talking with people about this. Do you think God, like, in someone's life, are there a bunch of decisions that's kind of like God's kind of like, you could choose whatever you want as long as you, you know, honor me in your decisions. But does he have, like, certain things, like, for certain people? Like, kind of he did in the Bible where it was like, yeah, someone. It didn't matter what they did.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:12]:
Another person, God's like, no, you are going here and doing this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:16]:
I just wonder that for people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:17]:
Yeah. I think there's probably a mixture of both, right. Like, the people in the Bible who were clearly designed and destined to do this thing. I think about Moses, I think about Noah, Abraham, Jesus, some of the disciples, and the way that God encountered them and helped change their direction was so substantial and significant that they couldn't even deny it. Right. And there have been decisions like that where it feels like, man, this was a substantial moment of God speaking. I can't deny what God's doing. This is going to be a yes, I'll go for it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:53]:
And those moments did feel like obedience. But there were lots of moments where it didn't feel like God was speaking in a. In a substantial way. And there were lots of times where I felt like I wrestled with a decision. One thing comes to mind. It was in the middle of college, actually, and I had done these internships at my home church in the summertimes, leading, kind of leading up to graduation. And I was exploring ministry, trying to figure out if I wanted to do it full time. And one of those summers, I did kind of like an interim middle school associate position while they were in between middle school pastors.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:29]:
And I just helped run the middle school ministry for that summertime and really liked it. And at the end of the summer, they had offered me to stay and to do it full time, not like the middle school pastor position, but to join the student spirit, the students team. But that would include not going back to school and like basically leaving college early. So like dropping out of college.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:51]:
And it was one of those things that felt really complicated to me because I was like, obviously I want to finish my degree, but my degree that I'm getting is in dance. And now it kind of feels like maybe this is more of the thing that I want to do. And then obviously it's a cool thing to get offered a job like right in the middle of college. And it felt so, you know, calling. It felt so like maybe this is like the radical thing that God's doing. And I remember, I remember going away to like a remote, like I think I went to my grandparents lake house for the day or something by myself. And I remember praying and fasting and just being like, I'm gonna set aside the day to hear from God on this decision. And to me it felt like a monumental big decision of like, do I like reroute my life in this direction or do I keep the course? It felt like a big like dancer ministry decision.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:40]:
And I remember sitting with God for the whole day and feeling like no inkling towards what I was supposed to do. But in my mind it really felt like a Moses moment of like, are you going to follow me towards the thing I have for you or are you going to stay the course? But it didn't. It felt like the options were there, but it almost like God wasn't speaking super clearly in one way or the other. And so I kind of sat there and sat there and then ended up going home. And a couple weeks later told them, I think I'm going to finish my degree because I don't feel strongly one way or the other.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:14]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:15]:
And they actually said to me, they were like, we don't actually know if we would have let you leave school early to do this, but we kind of wanted you to have the chance to wrestle with that, with God. And I remember thinking that's interesting to like offer somebody something. And then not. We're actually not going to hire you, but we're just going to see if you wanted. And maybe they would have, I don't know. But it did, it did like kind of instill in me early on that anytime you wrestle with God over something that's never wasted.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:46]:
Time. Because it's in those moments that you're learning to seek out like the direction of God over your own. It's you kind of submitting your own will to God.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:57]:
And it reminds me that I think sometimes we can fall in love with what God does for us and the gifts that God gives us. And maybe not so much love God for who he is. Like, if. If he never gave you another good thing, if he never gave you another prophetic word for your life, if he never again gave you a direction, but he just was.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:18]:
Is that enough to still follow him and pursue him with your life? Like, if he never talked back to you, would you still talk to him? And I think that's just a perspective shift, that sometimes his silence helps us understand that he's your creator and he longs to be with you, and you actually are at your best when you're in relationship with him. But he's not like a vending machine of things to be given out to you. But if you only approach him with that desire of, like, what can I get from you? You're missing out on a huge part of who he is. So sometimes I think that the silence or like, those wrestling moments where you're like this or this. Sometimes I think God doesn't care whether it's this or this. It's more so like he wanted. He wanted to engage with you on it.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:11]:
He wanted to know, like, do I have your attention with it?
Leslie Johnston [00:35:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:14]:
Do I have your allegiance with this? Even if I don't even give you a straight answer at the end? You know, and I think that is more valuable than we know, because that's the stuff that teaches faith.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:23]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:24]:
But, yeah, I think.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:27]:
I think it. I really like that perspective. It kind of puts God back in God position. Like, even us sitting here trying to discern, like, why God feels silent. It's like we're just scratching the surface of, like, something that's so deep and wide that we could never understand it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:43]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:44]:
But I think when we look back in what God has done, not only in our lives, but even in stories in the Bible, you see where it's like, God felt silent.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:57]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:58]:
And it led up to something really monumental. Or like, when Jesus was in the wilderness, and it's like, even Jesus was like, this feels like a wilderness. I'm not hearing God. And he gets tempted and all of that, but that prepared him for something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:17]:
You know, Jesus from the garden to the cross.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:20]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:21]:
There was silence in that. Like. And then you think about, like, the world. There was silence from basically the end of the Old Testament to the beginning of the New Testament. Four hundred years had passed before God had spoken through the prophets to the people. And that. That was probably the biggest preparation time of looking forward.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:40]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:41]:
So then I guess they waited 400 years.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:43]:
We're like, 400 years to me in a week.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:45]:
Well, yeah. And. And so then that kind of begs the question of, like. Yeah. Like, if. If there's a part of God's silence that could be directly related to him preparing for something. I wonder. I mean, I don't know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:00]:
I would have been probably tempted in that 400 years to walk away.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:03]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:03]:
If there was no more voice, that there was no more guidance.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:07]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:08]:
I would have felt weird about staying around.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:10]:
Yeah. Well, you would have died, probably live.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:13]:
Like, oh, yeah, no, true. Right. I would be dead for sure.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:17]:
Yeah. And it's hard to, like, wrap our minds around that because we know God to be a loving, just kind of God. But I think some things that grow in the silence are. Obviously, any amount of silence takes faith to stick it out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:34]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:34]:
I think I struggle with feeling like, okay, well, if God has spoken to me, then I trust him. But when he feels silent, that's when I start to go, wait a minute.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:46]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:46]:
Like, am I missing something here?
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:48]:
Great point.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:48]:
Is this really real? Like, you start to doubt. And I think silence builds your faith. Like, it builds the fact of going, okay, I'm not in charge. He's not a genie in a bottle. And I need to trust that there's a reason for this. And it makes God God and makes us human.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:08]:
That's so good, Leslie. That's so good.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:10]:
It's. It's easy to say, hard to do.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:13]:
Easy to say, hard to do, for sure.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:15]:
But I think it is something that God, like, builds endurance in us. And there is an element of faith you actually have to have when you don't. I just don't think there's a lot of faith happening when God's speaking to you constantly. There's faith in doing what he's saying.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:29]:
Because what he's saying is probably hard to do.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:31]:
What he's saying is probably hard to do. But I just think if. If he's not talking right now, we always put on the shame of, like, well, I must not be good enough for God to talk to, or he must be mad at me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:44]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:45]:
Or he must be, like, not doing, like, he's just not working in my life. Like, he's busy with somebody else, which isn't true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:54]:
I think about, like, even. Even after. Let's say. Let's say God leads you to the big decision. And it feels like God was so clearly saying it, and then you do it. And then what happens after that? If you feel like there's A period of silence. Because that's arguably the time where you're like, I need you to be the least silent you've ever been. Because I've done this hard thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:18]:
I've been obedient to you in a way that doesn't make sense to me. But I think about Noah.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:22]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:23]:
And I don't necessarily. I mean, we don't. We don't look at the account and be like Noah was or God was silent. We don't look at the account in Genesis and think that God was silent towards Noah. But after Noah got his family on the. On the ark, after he built it and the flood came, there were many days where they were out stranded, like, sitting in the aftermath of their obedience, which was not clean.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:51]:
Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:51]:
Like, the reality of that is actually very gross. Like, you're trapped on a ship with waves, getting seasick. You built this thing yourself. So it's not even like you are fully probably trusting it. Yeah. And you're with your. Your immediate family is probably on your nerves. And then every kind of animal is also with you in this boat.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:09]:
Like, it's.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:10]:
This is your worst nightmare.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:11]:
Oh, it's horrible. The worst.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:13]:
And I just feel like animals in a boat.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:16]:
But there's probably something there to that, though, where it's like, there were. It was for 40 days. It's the same. It's the same amount of time. 40 days, 40 nights. It has a spiritual significance where you're sitting in your waiting, okay, God, I was obedient to you. Now what? And I feel like I'm in the pits of it right now. After I followed you, after I did the thing that you said.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:40]:
And now it feels like either you're silent or you're making me wait for the good thing that's supposed to come out of it. And we have to put our human hats back on and think, it might not be up to me to understand this, but God. But then when you get to heaven and God's like, let's look at the timeline. Let's look at what I did. Let's look at what I built here when I was quiet, you know, and there's clearly. What do you do when you feel like, we talked about this a little bit last night, and I'm curious if you've had this experience. When was the time when you felt very unmotivated or almost like you weren't really feeling it towards God? Because I think that's a different. Almost like a.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:29]:
Like a different reverse kind of silence where, like, your. Your heart feels yeah. Apathetic towards faith or God.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:39]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:40]:
Or even, like, the stuff that used to set you on fire. Church, your small group Bible reading. All of a sudden it. It doesn't anymore.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:47]:
I feel like I experienced that this last summer. I think it felt like we had such a great year, and we came off, like, this high of a lot of the summer stuff, and then it just went into a season where I felt so, like, kind of. I mean, I know it's a buzzword, but kind of burned out and, like, tired. And I feel like I lost motivation for, like, what I was doing, my job. I lost motivation for, like, even my time with God. I felt like I came from this, like, spiritual, like, significant year. And some of that, though, I think, was my want for, like, control over my life. And I think there was just a lot of moving parts and a lot of things that were new and things I had to get used to that.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:38]:
I think I was tired, and I was tired of having to do all the things that God wanted me to do.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:44]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:45]:
And that's a real thing. And I think I just felt like. But it was funny because it came after so much stuff where God was so clear. Like, God provided so much last year. He was so, like, even with our podcast, I felt like there were times.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:02]:
Where.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:05]:
I felt like God was just giving me so much, like, in my heart and in my mind that he was using. And then it went into this season where I was like, oh, my gosh, I have, like, no motivation. Like, I just. Yeah, Like, I think it's just. It's somewhat of a natural part of the ebbs and flows of, like, our life. But I think I'm trying to think what I did about that. I think, honestly, I had to learn to just, like, keep walking forward and, like, what it looks like in the non flashy, like, just keep moving forward. I'm not gonna quit.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:41]:
Like, I'm not gonna quit my job. I'm not gonna quit what I was doing. I'm not gonna stop doing the things that I felt like God had once. I was super excited about doing. And I think that's where some of that, like, the wisdom and maturity is built when you're like, I'm gonna stick this out when I don't want to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:02]:
Yeah, that's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:03]:
I'm gonna still show up for small group when I. I mean, I always liked going to small group, but it was like, I'm still gonna show up for the things that I have known that God has put in my life. And I'M gonna show up in my relationships, my friendships, even when I don't want to. And I think that's something that is really, really hard. It sounds so easy, but it's hard.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:25]:
So good.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:25]:
And I think whether you're walking through fear or whether you're walking through, like, disappointment, or you're feeling like you're in a season maybe where you just feel, like, depressed, maybe, I think the value of, like, I'm not trying to shoot for the stars in this moment, but I am just going to keep showing up. I'm gonna walk through the season knowing that I'm gonna come out on the other side. And it is funny. Cause I do feel like I still struggle with some of those things. But, like, it's like, not my life. It's not perfect, but I feel like some of those areas that were really dragging back then. I felt like, man, I'm not motivated to do anything now. I look on the other side and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so glad I didn't quit that.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:10]:
Like, I'm so glad when I was down, I did not quit that thing. Or I'm glad I stuck with this, because I'm seeing it now on the other side. And not that anything has changed, but I've changed a little bit. Like, my motivation has changed. And I think those are the moments where it's, like. It feels somewhat. I hate to use the word like a test, but it feels like, will you still walk with me when you don't feel like doing it?
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:36]:
Yeah. It's funny how it never occurred to me before this moment when you were talking about this marriage is compared to your relationship with God.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:48]:
Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:48]:
Like, husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. So there's. There's a part of marriage where the covenant that you're making and the decision to be with them forever, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, it mirrors your relationship with God. And it's funny because whenever you're doing, like, a wedding ceremony or you're doing premarital counseling, they always talk about how it's not always going to feel romantic. Like there's going to be seasons where it feels really hard.
Leslie Johnston [00:46:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:18]:
But that's when your commitment has to come in. Yes. And I think about, you know, we haven't gotten there yet, but, like, the season after you have a baby, you're gonna be exhausted and worn out, and you're like, you're just both trying to survive. There's not A lot of romance, it's really just like, this is partnership, this is commitment, this is stick to it. And it's funny because you would think that that would feel discouraging to get to that point in a marriage where neither of you are feeling it right now, but you are. Like you're just going through it. But actually isn't that kind of like went like the idea of testing. Isn't that when you really see what your love is made of is when it's like, it's not the flashy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:05]:
It's not the romantic date nights or the honeymoon period. It's like this is the in sickness and in health, for better or for worse part.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:13]:
Where your love lasts because it's love that goes way deeper than what you're circumstantially feeling.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:19]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:20]:
And so it's funny because I've never actually compared that to a relationship with God. But like you said, it's like, what if in that season where you're not feeling as emotionally connected or your. Your desire might be at its lowest point because you're exhausted. You just feel burnt out on all of is. Funny how like, you might beat yourself up thinking, man, I don't love God like I used to. I don't love his. His things like I used to. That must mean that I'm broken or something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:52]:
But then on the other hand, it's like the fact that you're still showing up and following. Yeah. Even without the bubbly feelings on top might actually mean that there's a deeper love that's grown underneath that equals like that gospel level commitment to. And that might not be as scary as you think it is. That might be a new layer to your relationship with God that's formed.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:17]:
Where you're not just in this because of the warm fuzzies that you get because of it. You're in this because the facts are Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins. And you actually believe that's changed your whole life. And you're going to give your whole life to this forever. Like, you will walk with God forever because of that. That feels like a way deeper commitment than just, I feel really good right now and I'm gonna follow God.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:40]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:40]:
You know, which actually gives me a lot more grace for myself. Even last night. Cause I was. That was one of the things we were talking. We did. We were talking about some of the things we've been struggling with recently with our small group girls. And I was saying how I just feel like almost Nothing towards God right now and how that's a very scary feeling. And I'll caveat that by saying that there are scriptural evidences for things where, you know, something could be blocking you from sin or a struggle of some kind or a heart issue.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:12]:
That can be blocking you from feeling that love and admiration for God. So, like, obviously do the work to figure those things out for sure. But if you're in a time where you're just like, I don't know what it is. I just feel really numb to it all. Maybe there is a really encouraging part about the fact that, like, you chose to stay. You're choosing to stay. Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:32]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:33]:
I don't know. Makes me feel less discouraged about that feeling good.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:37]:
Because I. I really do think the worst thing we can do to ourselves, which we all do it is think that our season lasts forever. And we go, oh, no, this is my new normal. This is my new normal. Like, this is me forever. Like, I'm not gonna. Yes. I'm not gonna wanna open my Bible.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:53]:
I'm not gonna wanna pray. I'm not gonna wanna do all these things. I don't. Like, this is. This is me now. Like, somehow I've reached rock bottom and rock bottom is now my new address. Like, that. It's not like, if we would just grasp, like, every season is a season.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:10]:
Yeah, there's things to learn, there's things to challenge ourselves with, but it's not going to last forever. And, like, I think the way you're feeling is not going to last forever. If you're on a high, that's not gonna last forever. So I think sometimes too, I think even, like, on the. On the side of hearing from God. I learned this, actually with this podcast. I felt like before that I would pray a lot about, like, God, give me wisdom. Like, I wanna hear from you.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:43]:
And sometimes it would just feel like, okay, the Bible says, like, God will give you wisdom if you ask for it. Like, without finding any fault in somebody, like, he will give it to you. And I realized, though, starting this podcast that so much more, like, would come to mind or come to my heart or when we were talking, just, like, came out of me. That wasn't something that I would normally think or say. And I feel like I realized, I think you had said something one time where you were like, I feel like I can tell that you're, like, in your Bible or something. And it was like this light bulb moment that was like, I know God speaks to me. Even if I were to do nothing for him. Like, I think God loves us enough that, you know, he loves.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:28]:
He loves us all, and it doesn't matter what we do. But I will say on the other side, I wasn't really doing much like that, needed God to speak to me. Like, I wasn't putting myself in scenarios where I actually needed to share with somebody, like, encouragement or wisdom or I wasn't even doing this podcast where it was like, our hope for this is just that people would feel less alone, more understood, and be inspired to live closer to God. And when we started this podcast, it was like, God's like, okay, let's do some things now. Like, I'm gonna put some things in your heart, in your mind that I'm gonna use. So it challenged me to go, if I'm not doing anything, why do. Why would I need to hear from God? You know, if I'm not willing to actually go do things for him, then am I really setting myself up to hear from him?
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:21]:
It's a great point.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:23]:
You know, it's a great point.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:24]:
Like, if you're sitting because you're called by God and his word to move, and that's evident and is sort of the baseline calling for everybody. If you're curious about what your calling is, there's a few different spaces. It's love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. And then the Great Commission says that you're supposed to go into all the nations and preach the gospel, make disciples, and baptize people. There's a million ways you can do that. You have to figure out what your special flavor of that is. But everybody's calling is to do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:58]:
And if you're right, that's a. That's a really interesting point. If you're kind of like sitting on your butt and you're not really engaging with the part of. Part of faith that actually involves mission. Yeah. And your action, then a. That's. That's actually disobedience could be looked at as, like, the sin of slothfulness or like the sin of, you know, sitting still or.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:21]:
Yeah, whatever. Being. Being silent or idle. And that might be a reason why you're not hearing. But also it's like, yeah, why would you hear if you're not putting yourself and obed in. In situations to be obedient?
Leslie Johnston [00:53:33]:
Like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:33]:
Yeah, that's a good point.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:34]:
I can fall victim to feeling like, oh, all my prayers are about me, or, like, all the wisdom I need is for only me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:44]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:44]:
And I'm not saying you have to go start a podcast, but I'm saying, like, you can do that in your family. You can be doing that, like, going and, you know, starting a small group or going and volunteering somewhere or something that actually gets you out of yourself. And I wouldn't be surprised if you start hearing God a little more clearly. Yeah. Because he's going, oh, you do need me. Like, putting yourself in a spot where you actually do need God and need his wisdom, that, to me, is like a pretty. A pretty good setup to hear more.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:16]:
No, that's a. That's a huge. That's a great point. It kind of reminds me of, like, maybe if you're. If you're in a situation where you're spending the bulk of your time praying for yourself and for your own things, and if you feel like there's some silence. I wonder if you paused for a second and then started switching to a list of people in your life that you could be praying for instead.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:33]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:34]:
Kind of like what you mentioned that you did at that spa or that sauna or whatever for that day when you were in Canada.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:40]:
Oh, yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:41]:
And. And like. And all of a sudden, God was speaking about all these things, like, prompting you. And it's like, I wonder how much of our. I don't know. Like, I wonder if. I wonder if there's. There's a pitfall to faith where you're.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:57]:
So People teach introspection so much when it comes to your faith. Consider you and God. God, search my heart, Know my ways, Created me a clean heart. Oh, God, renew a right spirit within me. Like, work on me, work on me, work on me. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pray those prayers. That's huge. And it's important.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:13]:
But a lot of people get stuck there, and that's all. Those are all the only prayers they pray that are about them. But then that's kind of leaving out the whole aspect of your life with God. That's about you being on mission for other people.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:25]:
Yes, too.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:26]:
And being others focused.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:27]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:27]:
And so as a practical application, I wonder what it would be like if you're like, man, if I feel like all my prayers are about me, I'm gonna stop praying for me for a second. I'm gonna start praying for other people.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:38]:
Or if I'm being discouraged because in my, you know, my quiet time or my scriptural reading, I just feel like everything is about me, me, me. And I get discouraged when God's not speaking to it. What would it look like to send an encouraging message to somebody else of what God thinks about them through his, like, others focused.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:55]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:56]:
And I wonder if it would, like, clear the pathways a little bit.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:59]:
I don't know. I think God has wired us that when we think more of others, we feel better about ourselves. Like, but it's the opposite of what the world says and what we naturally think. Like, I think, oh, if I want to feel better or be better, I need to do all these things for myself or I need to think more of myself. When I think God's like, I'm telling you these things because your pursuit is for you to be happy. So everybody. I feel like you're born with the want to just. I wanna be happy.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:30]:
Like, I want to feel secure and good. And I think God's like, I know. And that's why I put it in there for you to go do. Like, faith without works is dead. And he wants you to do something with your life because in turn then your joy will increase.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:48]:
Yes, your joy.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:49]:
Your joy is going to decrease every time you start, you know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:53]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:54]:
Thinking only of yourself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:55]:
It's funny, like, it seems so obvious, but none of the New Testament letters were written to individuals. They were all written to groups of people and they were all communal. Right. So.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:04]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:05]:
So much of that instruction is how you're supposed to relate to the world around you.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:10]:
One other practical thing I was going to say too, because I think that this is. I see this a lot in young people and I see this a lot in myself too. Is your disciplines with God should not happen on the sole basis that you feel like doing them. But that can be confusing because when you first come to faith, it's like you're hungry to know all the things about God. And so you spend a lot of time in prayer and you're at church every single week and you're digging into your Bible, you're reading extra books. Yeah. You're getting mentored by somebody. Like, you're.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:43]:
You. You do all these things out of an overflow in your heart of love for God and a desire to be with him. But then, just like with your marriage, you might go through a rough patch where you don't feel as motivated. That doesn't mean that you stop going on dates. It doesn't mean that you stop serving or doing the dishes. It doesn't mean that you stop giving words of affirmation at that point. That's when those. Those practices need to become like the disciplines that help sustain your relationship.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:10]:
Even if you don't feel like it. And so I see a lot of people who kind of, like, put down their Bibles or, you know, drown out God's voice in prayer with the radio or Spotify or whatever when it. It just doesn't feel the same anymore. Yeah. And I think that's one of the ways that the enemy kind of gets you and has gotten me recently, where it's like, if I don't feel like it, then I'm gonna do something that feels better.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:36]:
But then in doing so, you've put down your Bible, you've stopped praying, you've stopped showing up to the things that used to feed you, and you've replaced all of those activities.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:46]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:46]:
With numbing activities that make you feel things in little, like, smart doses, but nothing that's lasting or eternal. So it's kind of a reminder of, like, if you don't feel like reading your Bible right now, that's. This is kind of when the rubber meets the road of commitment, where you have to, like, pick it up and do it anyways.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:02]:
Yeah. It's really.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:04]:
And it's like the healthy eating analogy where at first, like, broccoli doesn't sound better than a doughnut.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:10]:
And for the first, you know, 10 times that you eat it instead of a donut, it's still not going to be fun. But then eventually your body begins to crave what it's being fed.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:18]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:19]:
If it's being fed. Correct things.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:21]:
So, yeah. It's like, the love will come back and. And the admiration and the desire will come back. Yeah. But it's just a reminder, like, keep doing the things that you. That you've trained to do, even when they don't feel as fun as they used to.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:36]:
Yes. And that will protect you during that season, too.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:40]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:41]:
I think that's such a good reminder for me because I feel like I'm in a season right now where I wake up and I'm like, TikTok, or I'm gonna do something else.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:50]:
And I think if we widen the gap between God and ourselves, what's gonna take that place.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:59]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:00]:
And I think about. It's such an extreme phrase, but it's like, I just keep thinking about, like, giving the devil a foothold in your life. And it's like, if you think about it that way, you're a little more like, oh, shoot, I don't wanna do that. Like, this isn't just harmless.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:12]:
No.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:13]:
This is actually, like, not sticking to the disciplines. Not that it has to be so regimented but at least getting some of that time when you can.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:22]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:23]:
It's actually shortening that gap between you and God.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:27]:
It's like they tell you to put all these protective measures into your marriage when you're going through a busy season or a. Yeah. Like a kid season. Because it's in those gaps where it feels like everything's a little bit less romantic, less whatever. And it's funny that God calls us or not God. Well, yeah, I guess, like we're referenced in the text as like we're an adulterous people. We're always looking.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:50]:
For another thing besides our covenant to fulfill. A longing that's there. And so it's like you have to guard yourself in those moments where you don't feel as.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:00]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:01]:
Lovey dovey towards God. It's like. Yeah. The scripture reading and the prayer in a church community that actually guards you from replacing him with something.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:10]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:10]:
That's not your covenant. Love.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:12]:
And Satan will always bring up like, here's a replacement right here at your fingertips. Like it's so easy always. And it's harmless and all of that.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:19]:
Yes. So it's great.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:22]:
This is good. I'm gonna go read my.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:24]:
I feel convicted, but like. Yeah. But in a good way. And I hope that felt a little freeing too. Like convicting of, hey, don't give up your fight and keep, Keep at your stuff. But also the freeing part of it of like, this is very normal.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:39]:
Incredibly normal.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:40]:
You are not like unsaved or unloved if you don't feel 100% towards God or connected with God at all times.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:51]:
Yep.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:51]:
Because the reality, the gospel reality, is that God is always 100% holding on to you. And he says that there's nothing that can snatch you from Him. So even if you feel like a distance or a, you know, it's. It's like all of that stuff to get figured out. But it doesn't mean that you've been left behind or that God doesn't love you or God hasn't saved you. Like, not that this is normal. This is like the ebbs and flows of life.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:16]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:17]:
So you're not alone.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:18]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:19]:
But.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:19]:
Well, this is great. I needed it.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:21]:
I know, Me too.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:23]:
Hopefully you guys all needed it too.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:26]:
Well, Happy Monday.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:28]:
Happy Monday. What do they call that? The Monday? Oh, Sunday scaries is what?
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:32]:
Sunday scaries. So they should be over that by now.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:34]:
By the time that they're. You're just in it now. You're just in the scary.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:38]:
You're in the scaries. It's happening to you.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:40]:
Oh, man. Well, comment on this podcast.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:45]:
Thanks for joining us, and we love you guys. And we'll see you next week.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:49]:
That's right. Go have yourself a cooked s'. More.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:51]:
A cooked s'? More? Or an uncooked s'? More? No.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:55]:
All right, see you next week.
Morgan May Treuil [01:02:56]:
Bye.
Leslie Johnston [01:02:56]:
Bye.