Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
Okay. Welcome back.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:01]:
Welcome back.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:02]:
Am I doing this?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:02]:
It feels good that it's the two of us. I know it hasn't been this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:05]:
We've had so many guests recently, and they were all too many.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:08]:
Good guess. Not enough us. Not enough us talking.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:11]:
Not enough us. Not enough of us. That's what. That's what I always think. More us.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:16]:
More us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:17]:
I'm glad that.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:18]:
I mean, sometimes we get feedback that's like, you guys should have this guest on. This guest on. And we love that. But I really like the ones where they're like, I kind of like just you two.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:27]:
I also hear people tell us that all the time that they want us to be. They want us to just yap in their ears all the time. Which I agree. That's what I want to do, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:35]:
That's what I'm hoping for.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:36]:
So what are your Easter plans?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:39]:
Oh, yes. We are filming this Friday. This episode comes out Monday. So Easter has not happened. Jesus hasn't risen yet. So we're sitting the waiting game. Waiting. Well, we'll be at church.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:54]:
Yeah. In between our Good Friday services right now. Which we do something really cool for Good Friday, if you've. Which I should ask you this question. So for Good Friday, we. There's a service that happens that's very emotional, very heavy. It's a message worship. And then interspersed through all of that are scenes from the Passion of the Christ.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:15]:
So it's very visual, very cinematic, and it's super intense. And did you grow up watching the Passion of the Christ?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:22]:
I was just going to say I wasn't allowed to watch Passion of the Christ ever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:26]:
Like, the first time you saw it. Good Friday service here.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:30]:
I've never seen it. And not because obviously, like, I'm sure my parents, when we were in middle school or high school, were probably able to watch it, and we're probably be cool with it, but literally we were not allowed because it was too gory. So then I just never watched it. And then I'm watching it at the Good Friday service. We do this cool thing where there's like. It's called a scrim. Right?
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:50]:
Sheer curtain.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:51]:
Yeah, sheer curtain. The bands behind. You're seeing like, basically the movie play out. And there's worship behind it. And it is like the coolest experience ever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:59]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:00]:
And that was the first time I've seen it. Got re. Saved. I like to say, what was that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:05]:
What was that like? Because not only are you seeing it for the first time, but you're seeing it like in a. Basically a Big movie theater with, like, worship and all this stuff.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:13]:
I was like, dang, how have I not seen this before?
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:16]:
Was it, like, what you imagined, like, when you read the story? Did it compare at all to what you imagined in your head?
Leslie Johnston [00:02:23]:
I think that I knew. Well, I had heard things about. Because I feel like when I remember when it came out and everyone was talking, and there was even, like, they got some flack saying they made it, like, too gory or too. Which. I don't know how you make a crucifixion too gory. Like, do you know what they do to people in that? But I remember, I think, the. Because the first time I watched it was maybe now three years ago, and I was like, dang, this is really, really. It was like, you hear about Easter, you hear about Jesus dying on the cross, and you even read about it, and you're like, yeah, that sounds terrible.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:02]:
But the movie really puts it into perspective. And I feel like the whole time I was watching it, I was like, you. I don't get, like, super weirded out by. I don't love watching gory stuff, but to me, it doesn't make me, like, throw up or anything, so I'm fine watching it. But I just felt an overwhelming sense of, like, oh, my. Like, I. Like, Jesus loves us so much. And I love Jesus so much for doing this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:28]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:29]:
And I think that was honestly, like, the first time I really, like, felt what that must have felt like. It was so good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:36]:
I remember thinking the first time I watched it.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:38]:
Yeah. How old were you?
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:40]:
We started watching it every Easter. I don't remember the exact age. We must have been. I must have been in middle school when we started watching.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:49]:
And I love that. Actually, we watched it once a year all together, and they didn't, like, censor anything. They kind of just let it go. Which I was watching rehearsal today and holding Waylon, and Waylon's staring at the
Leslie Johnston [00:04:04]:
scenes of Jesus getting whipped.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:05]:
And I'm like, does he understand this? And should I be taking him away from the screen? But I remember thinking, man, when I read my Bible, I do not have a picture of what I'm reading. You know, like, it's so easy when you read a story, a fiction book, or even, like, anything in text that you just read. It's actually very hard for me to connect what I'm reading and the information I'm taking in with a visual of what's actually happening.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:36]:
You're not creating a visual picture as
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:38]:
you're reading, which makes me not that I don't believe it.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:43]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:43]:
But it makes it hard for me to, like, sit in that kind of a reality every day. And so when I first started watching this movie, I remember thinking that it. It was almost like it hit me all at the same time, for the first time of exactly what Jesus did, I knew all the facts. I could have, like, spouted off to you what the gospel is and what happened in the Resurrection, but to see it was a really different experience. It, like, hit which. Do you remember that Thrive Collective retreat we did? And Charlie Dates. Dr. Charlie Dates did a preaching class.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:21]:
And he was talking about, like, the five senses of. Yes. The text. So, like, you have to unpack the context so much. So where you go inside the text, and you're like, what do I smell? What do I see? What do I taste? And you, like, really familiarize yourself with the culture and the scenery and those kinds of things. And I think that's really helpful, not just for teachers, but for people who read the Bible. In order to understand spiritually, emotionally, and physically what was happening, you have to go inside of it a little bit. Which is why I think that the service is so cool, because it forces you to go inside of the story and to sit uncomfortably with a part of the story that usually you just read over.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:06]:
You recognize that had to have been super painful, but there's no part of you that has to experience that.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:12]:
So it's very easy to go through the season of Easter or even, like, your regular life, because this is Monday. But Easter we celebrate every single day because resurrection is true. Every single day. It's just so easy to, like, not have that in mind.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:27]:
Oh, yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:28]:
When you read it on a page and you keep going as if it didn't change anything. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:33]:
Even thinking of Easter as, like, oh, Easter is so happy and so, like, colorful. Which it is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:41]:
But that's half the.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:42]:
It's the. The best part of the story. But you have to understand Good Friday to be able to even celebrate Easter.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:49]:
Such a good point. And, you know, I don't know how y' all did it growing up, but I don't ever remember making much of Good Friday.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:59]:
Oh, good. This is horrible to admit. I always thought Good Friday was the service for all the old people to go to that we never went to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:07]:
You're like, they do that one special.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:09]:
I'm like, that is especially for the old people. Like, in my mind, I remember being like, definitely not going to Good Friday. Yes. I don't even think I knew what it was right. Because I never saw passion, so I just never knew.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:21]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:22]:
But I just was like. Oh. I mean, even into my, like, college years, it was known as, like, just the service that was like, you know, it's kind of somber. People come, they do a message. But I think. Which I never went. They probably did an amazing job. But when Mark Clark came to Bayside, he brought this, like, let's show the movie alongside worship.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:44]:
And it is just like, the coolest thing ever. It's just such a cool experience that I'm like, I will never not. Which I actually love that your parents made you guys watch the Passion of the Christ every Easter. I probably will do that with my family someday. Like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:57]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:58]:
Cause I just. There's so much more meaning behind Easter than there is if you don't truly understand Good Friday.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:05]:
Yes. Your point about the reason we have Resurrection Sunday is because we had. Is because Friday. And Friday was good because it pointed to resurrection. But it does make me feel like the amount of people that show up and attend Easter services, it's one of the highest attended church services of. Of the year for anybody. People flock to church services on Easter Sunday. And there's something obviously ceremonial, and it's like a family holiday, and everybody gets together.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:34]:
Your family's in town. So that's part of it. But also it's very fun. And pastels and, you know, you get your Easter dress or Easter attire, and you. You come celebrate, and we do a bunch of great stuff for it. But the amount of people that come to a Good Friday service compared to what comes to an Easter Sunday service, it's a shocking difference.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:54]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:54]:
And it makes me feel like, as a world and probably as a church, it's very hard to sit in the heaviness and the weight of what Good Friday is. It's way easier to celebrate. And it's kind of like the. I don't know, like, the question for. For people listening and for us, too. It's like, why are we so. Is it good that we are so uncomfortable with a suffering Jesus? And, like, why are we uncomfortable with that? Yeah. And why are we so hesitant? Are we not good at sitting in the depth of sorrow and lament and suffering? We just want to skip forward to resurrection.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:35]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:36]:
Not realizing that resurrection is accomplished only because there was death in the first place. So it's like, we always, you know, when people get baptized and when we preach, we're like, from death to life. From death to life. And it's a great little phrasing, and it Points to life, it points to happiness. But there's the reality that like death was death. Like, like he was dead and then he rose. We were dead in our sin. And then we rise.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:00]:
But I don't know like when you. Because we're attending with our small group today at 6:00pm I don't, I, I don't think you would mind us telling this story, but we brought our friend John. Oh yeah. To Good Friday service for the first year, like three years ago or whenever that was.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:16]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:16]:
And we went out to eat afterwards and he was like, I need a drink. He ordered like a margarita drink after that, which I thought was the coolest response to that because it moved him so significantly.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:32]:
I know the next year he's like, I brought my tissues. This year I was, I'm prepared for
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:36]:
this year, cuz it's so heavy.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. And this year he flew from socal to come.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:42]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:43]:
Well, he's here for Easter. But to. I mean, part of it was like, oh, I'm coming up for this and services and all that, which is so cool.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:49]:
So why do we not like to sit in the heaviness of that? Like, we don't like to think about Jesus on the cross.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:55]:
You know what's funny? For me, I almost feel the opposite. I have a much. Now that I know, obviously I grew up kind of doing the Easter thing, but now that I know how impactful Good Friday is, I feel like I have a much easier time. And I feel like I get more. I don't wanna say I get more out of it, not in that way, but I just. Good Friday to me feels like I'm really feeling like how much God actually loves me. Which maybe is why people get uncomfortable with it. It's like, wait, wait, wait, he's dying for my sins.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:29]:
This is my fault. This is. But to me, it's like if you actually turn that around and go like, look how beautiful this is that he loves us so much that he would go through this excruciating of a process and to then. And then to rise again later.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:44]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:44]:
But there's something about Good Friday to me that I feel more loved by God then than even the Resurrection.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:50]:
But that's a good point though. I wonder if it's like to be loved to that degree is kind of unfamiliar in terms of what we experience on Earth. Obviously you have like the unconditional love of your parents. If you come from a family that's like that, you have the unconditional love from your spouse that feel you Know, like, you have examples of love that feel big and significant. And then you. You read or watch that a man literally died the most painful, gruesome death he possibly could have and did it all voluntarily. And it wasn't accidentally. It was like this was planned, this was thought out, right? Like, the second that Adam and Eve fell in the garden, a prophecy was spoken that spoke of Jesus coming and that he would conquer the enemy, that Satan would bruise his heel, but he would crush Satan's head.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:40]:
So, like, this was always the plan. The cross didn't take Jesus by surprise. It wasn't accidental. He chose the cross, chose to do the most painful. Also the other aspect of it that's kind of crazy, chose to do it as a human being. So, like, fully God, but emptied himself to the point of becoming a man a. So that he could take on the punishment that we deserved. So there's some doctrine in that of, like, our sin was placed upon him.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:08]:
He dies as a human being so that he could pay the price we should have paid him. Rising from the dead is like God's receiving of, okay, like, my. My justice meter is satisfied. My righteousness is satisfied because there was death. The wages of sin is death. But then if you think about it, you're like, there's probably other ways that God could have chosen to put an end to sin, sin. And yet the way he chose to do it was to make himself into a person who has the full range of, like, human emotions. Fear, sadness, anger, despair.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:41]:
And also all the physical feelings. Like, he has nerves and blood and has pain. Like, and I don't know what kind of pain threshold he had. Like, he was a person. And that kind of love does make people, myself included, feel a little bit uncomfortable. Because like you said, it's like, that should have been me, or I don't deserve this, or I'm not comfortable with being loved that much. Yes. And I don't know what that is, but I think you're right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:12]:
I think that's part of the reason why people struggle to sit in that. Because they're uncomfortable with being loved to the point of action. Like, that kind of action that is really intense and beautiful or feeling like,
Leslie Johnston [00:14:27]:
oh, shoot, I was the one that put him up there. Like, when you watch the movie, you at first you kind of get in the headspace of like, oh, my gosh, look at them doing this to Jesus. Like, they're doing that. And then I remember at one point it clicked. I'm like, oh, but I. But I'm that person yeah, like, I'm the reason why he had to do that. Like, and it's not just, oh, he's dying for you as this like, self influence. It is a selfless act.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:51]:
But like, he's taking on the sense, like, says that he took them all on. Like, I always wonder, I don't know if you've like, read anything about it, but like, what that, what people think that felt like, or what that was like for Jesus. Because doesn't it say, like, when he was on the cross, it was like he felt the weight of all of the sin?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:10]:
Yeah. I mean, so it's not even like
Leslie Johnston [00:15:11]:
he's just getting crucified. It was like, oh, he felt the weight of that and he was like, God, why have you forsaken me?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:18]:
Yeah, it was. Yeah, I know. It's the, the fear and like the, the separation from God that he would have felt because he was carrying sin that God couldn't be near. That's a very scary for. And like, I always think about it too. It's like, so he is a person, but also he's, he's sovereign and he's all knowing and he's fully God. Fully God and fully man. Which means as he's up there hanging on this cross, he has every person in all of humankind on his mind and knows the exact sins that he's dying for.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:54]:
Like, what an overwhelming, heavy, kind of indescribable moment.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:59]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:00]:
And I think the conviction for me, especially when we come to Easter Sunday on the weekends, I always come to the end of Easter Sunday, I get to Monday and I feel this intense conviction that I just spent a Sunday. Now hear me when I say this. Don't hear what I'm not saying. I just spent a full weekend in celebration mode for the resurrection, and then Monday comes around and then I kind of just go back into regular mode now. I actually don't think that God's design is for us to sit in lament over his death forever. Like, I think that the goal is celebration over the resurrection. But even if that's the goal, I just don't feel like it's something that we keep at the forefront of our minds in celebration in the same way that we do at Easter now. It's like there's festivals and calendars and timing for a reason.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:54]:
So I know that God knows that our brains are meant to function in this way where we can like, look forward to things. So I'm not questioning why we pick one day to celebrate it. I, I think I Just feel convicted that after this one day is over, I don't live with resurrection in mind. And I don't know, I just. That feels kind of not great as a Christian, because that's kind of the whole point. Or like, the whole, like, invitation thing. Like, we get super excited to invite people to church Easter time, and then there's Sunday coming next Sunday, and I have no one on my mind to invite to Easter.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:32]:
Gotta wait till next year.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:34]:
I know. What is that? It's not like, an apathy. I think it's more of, like, a lack of being mindful about it.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:42]:
Yeah. Or even, like, Easter is a good reminder, too. And again, I think Jesus has died on the cross for our sins. We are fully forgiven. But it also in the Bible talks about, like, then don't go and keep on sinning.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Kindness is meant to lead you to repentance, not to, like, that I'm like,
Leslie Johnston [00:18:02]:
Monday coming, and I'm like, what can I talk about? You know, like, can I get up, too? Yeah, what can I get? What we gonna get into? And so to me, it's like, it's good to have those moments in the calendar where you're like, oh, I am remembering what Jesus died for. And that when I sin again, it's like, I'm putting. Almost like you're like, putting him back on the cross in a way, like, in your mind. It's like, if you don't care or when I don't care, and I just go like, well, whatever. It's like, everyone does it, you know, it's like, it's a good reminder to not. Not fall into, like, this guilt trip of, like, yeah, shoot, I'm not perfect. But, like, it's a good reminder that it's like, oh, I should be living in a state of, like, oh, repenting and trying to be better, not just sitting in my sin and being fine with it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:54]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:54]:
But going not only, like, should I feel a little bit of the weight of that to go, oh, I. I don't want to keep sinning because I know what that looked like for God to take on y. But at the same time, God wants so much more for us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:09]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:10]:
Like, sin's not just about feeling guilty and bad about what you did, but more so, like, totally. No. No. God has a better plan.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:17]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:17]:
That exists outside of sinning and what that can lead you to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:21]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:21]:
So it's a good reminder, like, really take sin seriously.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:24]:
Yes. This. This example just came to mind, and there's probably some flaws in it. So this is not a perfect example, but I'm just imagining. Have you ever thought about, like, what would happen in your life if you needed, like, a. A kidney or something and someone you love?
Leslie Johnston [00:19:40]:
Give me one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:40]:
Right. Okay. So maybe it feels a little bit different when it's your twin. Like, okay, so imagine give you my
Leslie Johnston [00:19:45]:
kidney if you need it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:47]:
I would never take your kidney.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:48]:
Why?
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:49]:
Your kidneys are awesome. I would just feel so indebted to you for the rest of my life. Your kidneys are great. Don't stress. It's not your kidney, it's me. But I think that's the point. That's the point. Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:57]:
It's like, for me, that idea of me needing a vital organ and receiving it from somebody stresses me out because I would feel so. It's like, indebted to them.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:13]:
And I don't want that. Like, I don't want to inconvenience anybody. And taking someone's kidney is like, the heights of inconvenience. Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:19]:
You know what took that thing and, like, really made a big deal out of it was that. I don't even know if I should be saying this podcast, but that Selena Gomez.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:28]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:29]:
Her, like, person who gave her something. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:32]:
Whatever it was. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:33]:
I guess she, like, that girl wasn't invited to the wedding.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:36]:
Right. They're like, no friends anymore.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:37]:
What do you mean? She gave you a kidney invite to the wedding?
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:41]:
Right, Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:42]:
So.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:42]:
So then I'm not saying I agree
Leslie Johnston [00:20:44]:
with that, but I'm just saying this is what they were talking about.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:47]:
Yeah. And so I feel like that is the closest example that I have to, like, this incredible gift has been given to you.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:55]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:56]:
It's been done. So you're supposed to live, like, the life that you now get to live because you have this kidney. You don't need to spend your whole life groveling or, like, you know, like, feeling bad over what you got. Right, Right. Like feel good over the fact that you now get life. And that's awesome. And then at the same time, it's not like. Like, let's say you get the new kidney.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:21]:
You should live. Like, I. I'm on borrowed time, in a sense. I'm going to take very good care of my body because someone gave a part of themsel for me to have this second shot. And so it's like, I think that's kind of of the thing with the resurrection. It's like, it's good to sit in the sorrow of what Jesus had to take on himself. And when you sin, like you just said, I actually think that's a really great repentance prayer. Maybe thing to do is to go in your.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:54]:
Go inside your imagination and be like, I'm adding to the cross right now. I'm adding to the weight of what Jesus experienced. And it's good to think of that and at the same time to not live in shame over the past because what's been done has been done. He said it's finished. Which means you don't have to like, live in the in between of will. He won't.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:12]:
He.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:12]:
He did. But it's not a reason to keep on going. So it's like a.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:17]:
Both.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:17]:
It's like, I'm going to live well because I've been given this incredible gift. I'm not going to tarnish it. And at the same time, I'm going to live and not just like, be nervous and uncomfortable with the fact that I got this gift.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:32]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:32]:
That's like the weird because to me,
Leslie Johnston [00:22:33]:
if I gave you my kidney, I would actually be. I would think I would be upset if you were not living your life and going, wow, thank you so much. I'm gonna go live my life.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:44]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:45]:
Now we're not. I'm not saying like, oh, with God, you just go live your life and don't care. I'm saying more so like, live your life in a good way and live it to the full and don't constantly be like, oh, my gosh, Leslie, I
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:57]:
don't deserve to be here.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:58]:
Yeah. I don't deserve to be here. I should, I shouldn't be like, no, yeah. Like, you go and live because that person wanted you to live.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:05]:
I wonder if people pleasers have a really hard time with the resurrection.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:10]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:11]:
Probably because they. It feels like the ultimate inconvenience. And yet it says that God delights to save his people, that he wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:22]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:23]:
And for the joy that was set before him, he endured the cross, which means that he didn't do it begrudgingly. He didn't do it like he had. We. God didn't have to drag him there. He, like, for the joy is set before him in joy. He took the cross because he could see past the pain of that moment and into the purpose of, wow, look what this accomplishes for the world.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:48]:
Gosh, I can't imagine being up in heaven, being Jesus and that, you know, when something you like, you have to do something and it's. It's like the worst and you're just Dreading it the whole time. Imagine Jesus being in heaven, being like. But that wasn't the way that he. Like, he didn't dread it for centuries and centuries until it happened.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:06]:
He. He's like, enjoy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:08]:
Desire.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:09]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:10]:
It's just crazy.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:11]:
I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:12]:
Insane.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:12]:
It is interesting, though, that he was in the, like, the garden before and was like, God, would you please don't, like, don't do this to me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:22]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:22]:
That's so interesting because it says, like, he wasn't like, yeah, be begrudgingly doing it. But it was funny how. I wonder, like, why he said that. Well, well, I think I'm understanding why.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:34]:
But yes, I think.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:36]:
I think part was that to show, like, his humanness.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:38]:
I think I. I mean, I don't know for fact, but it does make me feel better that Jesus was scared to do that, because I am scared. Yeah. And I had someone say, Mark Clark has said this before in a couple messages where, like, every aspect of Jesus's human experience sort of places himself within moments of suffering that we would experience. So to be like, naked and hanging on a cross, completely violated in his, like, in his nakedness.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:10]:
Helps him relate to the person who's experienced trauma in that regard or the people who have been mocked or beaten. It's like he. He's had literally every human experience possible. And again, like, a lot of that is the doctrine of him being our substitute. So he had to become us in order to pay our price of sin. But then also it's like all the. All the lengths that he went to, to experience the full nature of human humanity makes me feel like this was intentional. So we would know that he gets us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:44]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:45]:
Yeah. Not a God that's out of reach,
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:48]:
not detached, very emotionally connected to us. Yes. There's nothing you experience on planet Earth that Jesus is unfamiliar with. He's familiar with all of it. Like, even some. Some stuff that feels lighter to you, too. Of, like, who knows more about what it's like to be single and probably have a desire for companionship than Jesus single his whole life.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:13]:
Probably could have gotten married. That would have made things probably a little bit weird. But yeah, like. Yeah, I think that there. Yeah. No one gets everything like he does, which helps us draw closer.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:24]:
It's so true. Yeah. Whether you've been abused or even sexually abused, like, Jesus said, he was, like, stripped down, like, while he was on his way to the cross and all of that. So it's. It is. I love that we can go, oh, wait, Jesus. Yeah. Every single possible thing that can happen to us.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:45]:
Jesus has experienced.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:47]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:48]:
And even like when people lose a child, it's like, well, God also knows that pain, you know?
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:54]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:55]:
And there's like, it's so cool that we, that I think is the one difference of Christianity versus like any other religion is like, yes, God is all powerful, all knowing, he's holy, but he also is the most intimate, like to know us and know our pain. He's not just like some far away thing that's like, oh, we just hope someday we're good enough to get into heaven. It's like, no, he actually intimately knows us. He intimately knows what the human experience is like. So therefore he is someone who you can come to, which is so cool
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:35]:
to know Jesus in that way. And I was thinking as you were talking, how the, the Trinity and the threefold person of God, which is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and we tend to separate them because they kind of serve in different aspects of the story within Scripture. Right. The Father's kind of the one that we look at as there in the beginning. He's the author, he's the Old Testament God. He tends to represent more of like justice and power in our minds because of the specific stories that we hear about him in the Old Testament. And then Jesus gets this reputation of like being with us, being for us, being our substitute, being the guy who understands everything. He's empathetic towards us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:21]:
And then the Holy Spirit is. I, I don't know how you view the Holy Spirit, but to me it's like a combination of those two, but just living in me. Yeah, but I think I, I fall into the, to the trap of, of sometimes separating them too much. To the point where I look at Jesus and I feel like, oh, Jesus is so loving. He's so, for me, he's so sacrificial. And then God is more like mad dad away from me. So I think it's important in situations like that, this and especially on Easter Sunday to realize when Jesus came to earth, died on the cross for our sins, and rose from the dead. This is an aspect and a piece of God that did this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:02]:
This is the same God from the Old Testament. This is as much the Father's heart for us as it is the Son's heart. Because they're one in the same.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:10]:
And we know that that's true because. Which people would argue with that and say, well, you say that. But the way that Jesus acts in the New Testament towards people is way different than how God responded to things. In the Old Testament, right? Like, God was, was killing off people and he was like, exacting justice and he was holding firm on his power. And here's Jesus and he's entertaining people's stupid questions and he's meeting with the woman at the well, they're. They're so different. How can you say that they're the same? Well, they are the same and their heart has always been the same to love people. And yet God's power and his justice, his righteousness has been satisfied in the sacrifice of Jesus so that he doesn't have to hold this, like, firm distance separation between sinners and himself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:04]:
And we know that his heart's the same because of situations like Passover, like when God rescued the Israelites out of captivity in Egypt and then brought them into the promised land. And Pharaoh would not let the people go at first. If you've seen, yeah, Prince of Egypt, then you understand what we're talking about in all the songs. And there were plagues that God sent because he wanted his people to be free. So the plagues he's sending we tend to look at as like, well, that's pretty crazy and harsh that God would send these plagues on people. But the way that we. We were to look at that is like, God is serious about rescuing us out of evil, out of sin, sin out of shame. So he will do whatever it takes for him to rescue his people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:44]:
So he sends these plagues. And one of the plagues that he sent is the killing of the firstborn son. And you could be exempt from that. If you take the blood of the lamb and you paint it on your doorpost, then when God comes, you know, through your neighborhood to, to execute this plague on the firstborn son, if you've got blood on your doorpost, he will pass over you. And this is literally foreshadowing of Jesus, right?
Leslie Johnston [00:31:11]:
If we, when.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:12]:
When God looks at us in our sin, he doesn't see. He sees the blood on the doorpost, and then that tells him my judgment can pass over. And so it's like, it's always been his heart to be redemptive, just to have to. To bring us salvation to save his people. God's heart has always been soft towards people. So I feel like it's important for me to remind myself when I watch movies like we're about to watch at six of like, okay, well, this Jesus is the same as is God is the same as is the Holy Spirit living inside of me. And I just feel like it's good perspective because you tend to separate them out a little bit. And then I think it changes our relationship with God as father because we tend to always associate him with judgment.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:58]:
But he is the same as Jesus.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:01]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:02]:
So I don't know. Yeah, it's just something else on my mind.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:04]:
But it's funny, like, even talking about the differences between them, it makes me go like, oh, gosh. Yeah, God is kind of scary sometimes. Like, he. Like there was a lot of stuff in the Old Testament that is intense. And it's very hard for us to wrap our minds around it because, like, I grew up feeling like. And I had a really great, I have a really great relationship with my dad. So I think a lot of times when someone has either like an incredibly strict father or they weren't always talked to great by their dad or they. I think a lot of times you get your initial thoughts of God from your dad.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:40]:
And I grew up with a dad who was so expressive of how much he loved us and all that. So to me, I always grew up being like, God's like that. Like, God loves me. Like, God's. He's not, he's never mad at me. And then I read the Old Testament, I'm like, oh, shoot, where's, where's the part where he tells them, like, how great they are and. But it's a good reminder because when I was going through the Old Testament and I was like, oh shoot, God's not messing around. Like, he is, he's an intense guy.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:09]:
And I was talking to someone and I was like, I'm really just kind of confused. Like, this doesn't line up with like the God that I thought kind of we were working with. And I remember someone saying, they're like, if you could understand God, he would be not worth worshiping. Like, you are never going to understand why he did those things back then. The reasonings, the, the mass. Like, you know, I mean, there's parts of the Bible where it's like he mass executes a bunch of people and like women and like, there's, it's not, it's not an easy, clean cut book to read. And I remember someone just being like, God is so much holier and more powerful that if you were to be able to understand why he would do all that he could do, then he's not worth following. Yeah, he's not worth worshiping because you don't get it.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:00]:
And that's actually a good thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:01]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:01]:
And so sometimes I just go, you know what? Like, some things I'm not gonna Know, until we get to heaven and when all things. Yeah. You know, you understand. But that was a good reminder.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:12]:
Such a good angle, too, for the skeptic. Because we want so badly to understand
Leslie Johnston [00:34:18]:
all of it and have every answer
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:19]:
and have all the answers and the things that we don't have answers for or the things we can't rationalize. Those things must not be true, because if they were true, they would have natural reasoning. But that takes out the factor that if he actually is God and He is. His ways and his purposes are so much higher than human beings because he's not frail like us.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:42]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:42]:
If that's actually true, then it would not make sense for us to be able to perfectly figure him out. He would have a fair bit of mystery in him in order for him to be worthy of our worship. And I've never thought about that angle before. That's actually really, really good for the skeptic.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:58]:
Yeah. It. It also is, like, a good reminder, too, of, like, in the gar. Like, I just think as people, because we're made in the image of God. I think that. And just like Satan knew back in the garden, he's like, oh, you could become God. Like, that's how they angled getting Adam and Eve. So it's like, oh, be like God.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:17]:
Like, you can do this. And so I think we are constantly in a state, especially when we get into that really. Like now I think there's a healthy skeptic, because you want. You want to know you're not blindly walking into something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:29]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:29]:
It's good to, like, research and. And figure things out. But I think a lot of times we are trying to be God. Yeah. Subconsciously.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:38]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:38]:
And we're going, well, if I can't fully understand every single thing and if he doesn't do it exactly, like I would and all this stuff. I'm like, yes, Satan's tactic still works today. He's still like, no, you could be God. Yeah. You could be the one that knows everything. Like, that's our biggest issue of being people. Is like, yes, we think we could do it better than God could.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:58]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:59]:
And to me, I'm like, we just can't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:02]:
No, that's. That's such a good point. So that's such a good point. And we need a God, because if any of us were in charge.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:12]:
It wouldn't go very well.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:14]:
It would not go well. I know I change my mind every other day on something. I'm like, I would do it this way. Thank God I didn't create thank God I'm not God.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:22]:
I would have taken way longer than seven days. We, like, do projects around our house or like make decisions on a couch or even getting a house. And I'm like, thank God we were not involved in the creation story because it would take seven years.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:35]:
Nothing would be doing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:37]:
Yeah, that's really good. I forgot to say this at the beginning, but my unpopular opinion.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:41]:
Oh, yeah, we started heavy now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:43]:
That's good. I know, I know, but that's so good. My unpopular opinion to close this out, if you want to, is that these new capri tight Capri pants that the girls are wearing with their high heels. Yeah, that's. That has never been, Will never be cute. Like, it does not work on anybody. It makes me think of the most, like, cheesily dressed Barbie doll.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:12]:
I was going to say like a. Yes, like a Barbie.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:15]:
It's like a Barbie. And it's like they're like, they're skin tight and then at the end they kind of.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:18]:
They have like a slit on the side. Yes. And there's like, they piss me off so bad. I'm like, it's always like a flip flop kitten heel.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:27]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:27]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:28]:
I saw somebody wearing them with little ballet flats and I'm like, what are we doing right now?
Leslie Johnston [00:37:35]:
Like, I just can't get back with the ballet flats. No, I'll do the jellies. Sure. The ballet flat. What are your thoughts on the jellies?
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:45]:
What the jelly again?
Leslie Johnston [00:37:45]:
Those jelly shoes. The one see through shoes. They're like ballet flats.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:49]:
I kind of like them only because they are kind of like, you're not wearing shoes.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:54]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:54]:
So I don't, I don't see them and be like, I think they're expensive to my eyes. But like a black ballet, you got
Leslie Johnston [00:37:59]:
good toes to wear those, which I don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:02]:
So I never rocked those.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:04]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:05]:
But yeah, these cap these pants.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:07]:
So funny. I've been seeing it worse and it
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:09]:
scares me because I'm like, I will eventually get on board with anything that the Internet tells me to wear.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:14]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:15]:
This.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:16]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:16]:
Which I guess skinny jeans kind of made a comeback, but not really. But not really. Like, I don't know anybody described who
Leslie Johnston [00:38:23]:
I like their style. Who's wearing skinny jeans as, like a comeback?
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:27]:
Do you feel like the baggy thing has lasted longer than like any other trends? I think so too. And I think the reason is because we all started wearing it. We were like, this is way more comfortable. I feel less, less self conscious about my body. And. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:43]:
And it's I just think it's cute. Like, that's something. I think I will take longer than I should. Styles will change, and I'm gonna be like, I still like the baggy look. I think it's cute. I think it's like, if you do it well.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:55]:
Yes, it's great. I love it.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:57]:
Now I will say low rise has come back with full.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:01]:
I see all the young people with their low rise and zippers, like, crop tops. And the zipper is so small. Yeah. And I can see their bellies.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:14]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:15]:
My niece calls them belly crop tops. Not just crop tops, but, like, belly crop tops. Because you can see your belly.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:21]:
Yes. That's funny.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:22]:
Like, yeah. And I'm like, what do we. What? Yeah. What?
Leslie Johnston [00:39:25]:
What?
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:25]:
What girl is comfortable? Like, do you. You just live your day like that?
Leslie Johnston [00:39:31]:
Now I would like, like, a baggy jean that kind of sits more low rise. Because it's like, kind of. It's like, I don't want to say falling down, but, like, I like that look to me, the tight low rise. I don't care who you are. It doesn't look good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:48]:
It doesn't look good.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:48]:
It's not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:48]:
It's like the capris.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:49]:
Yeah, it's like the capris. Also, I saw an influencer the other day. She's like, you could wear, like, literally all you have to do to elevate an outfit. You could be wearing, like, your capris. You could be wearing whatever biker shorts. You just have to put on a little kitten heel.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:01]:
I'm like, your biker shorts and a kitten heel. What are we talking about?
Leslie Johnston [00:40:07]:
Also, has anyone even walked in these kitten heels? No. Gosh, if heels are coming back, I'm gonna have to start practicing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:14]:
Oh.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:14]:
Because that is not easy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:16]:
I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. I wore these today, and I felt more comfortable than I've ever felt. Like, not uncomfortable.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:21]:
It's like, one inch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:23]:
Not even uncomfortable in terms, like, it hurts me. I feel, like, emotionally uncomfortable and self conscious about the fact that I have this on my foot.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:30]:
Oh, I think it's cute.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:31]:
Yeah. Well, I like them as a shoe, but I feel like I'm wearing them. I just wish I was in my Air force ones or those, like, just. I think on my toes are out. It just makes me feel so imposterous.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:41]:
And your toes are done, though.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:43]:
Mom took me to get a pedicure.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:44]:
Nice.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:45]:
Anyways, can't see mine.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:46]:
My socks are on.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:47]:
Well, anyways, happy Easter to all.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:51]:
To all who celebrate.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:52]:
To all who celebrate. Which we hope that you do.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:54]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:55]:
And we will see you back here next week on that's Right. Am I doing this right?
Leslie Johnston [00:41:00]:
See you then. Bye. Bye.