Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to the Am I Doing this Right? We are your hosts, Morgan and Leslie, and we have.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:05]:
There's another Morgan in town.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:07]:
There's a new Morgan in town. Morgan Krueger. Am I saying it right?
Morgan Krueger [00:00:13]:
That's perfect. Yeah. Just like Freddy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:15]:
Okay.
Morgan Krueger [00:00:15]:
Perfect. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:16]:
How many times do you have to say that? Do you. I feel like you have to be like, this is. Yeah, I get it. I know. It's also Freddy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:22]:
Yes. Freddy Krueger. I've never actually seen Freddy Krueger's from.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:27]:
I actually don't know who that is.
Morgan Krueger [00:00:28]:
What?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:28]:
I know the name.
Morgan Krueger [00:00:30]:
Yeah. I don't know that I've ever done a deep dive on Freddy Krueger, which I'm pretty proud of. But from what I know, it's not good. So I think it's like, not good for that one. But. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:39]:
Which is. Which is. Which is what makes that joke so funny. It's like, I like Freddy Krueger.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:44]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:00:44]:
The last name is the only thing that we have in common. Let's just say that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:47]:
Thank you for clarifying that up front because we were curious about that.
Morgan Krueger [00:00:50]:
You're so welcome. I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:51]:
I. Morgan, welcome to the Am I Doing this Right podcast. We are so thankful to have a little bit of your time today. Where do we find you this afternoon? Friday afternoon?
Morgan Krueger [00:01:02]:
Yes. Okay. So I live in Franklin, Tennessee, right outside Nashville. If you guys haven't been ever come visit. I'll take you to coffee. We have really good coffee here. But yeah, I love living here. It's such like a Jesus filled, spirit filled place.
Morgan Krueger [00:01:17]:
So super grateful. Currently I'm at my house. I am in my boys playroom. I have two boys and a third
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:24]:
boy on the way.
Morgan Krueger [00:01:25]:
And I am, you know, I love this little, like, corner of the playroom. It just makes me laugh because what you guys see is just like basic curtain lamp picture. What I see is like my laptop stacked on these toddler puzzles and I just see stuff everywhere.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:40]:
I love it.
Morgan Krueger [00:01:41]:
So, you know, I feel like I'm a walking testimony of like, the Lord meets you in the chaos and, you know, it could be the poster child for like, don't wait till your life is in order to just take the step of obedience, whatever God's asking you to do. Because if you saw this playroom.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:55]:
Yeah, it is, it's.
Morgan Krueger [00:01:56]:
It's quite a mess. But we're here, we're showing up and we're trusting that the Lord's gonna use me even in my mess. So. But yeah, I. That's where I'm at.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:04]:
And.
Morgan Krueger [00:02:04]:
And I'm a mom. I'm a wife. I love to write and encourage. And so I'm kind of your average, everyday girl that's been changed by a very incredible God.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:15]:
That's amazing. I love that. Okay, we're gonna dive, obviously, into your story, but before we do, as you know and are prepped for, I believe, but we don't know what your answer is. What is your unpopular opinion?
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:29]:
I'm so excited.
Morgan Krueger [00:02:30]:
Okay. Been thinking about this, and of course it's going to have to do with motherhood, because that's just the season I'm in right now. But my unpopular opinion is that dogs actually totally prepare you for motherhood. I feel like there are so. There are so many people who love to say, like, especially, like, moms, like, people saying that dogs prepare you. I'm like, no, they do. I'm sorry. My entire day is caught up in, like, my kids begging for treats and snacks.
Morgan Krueger [00:03:02]:
And then even. And like, even the puppy phase. Like, everyone's like, oh, my puppy is waking me up. I'm like, yeah, that's great practice. And then you said, leslie, you gave your dog a haircut. I was giving my boys a haircut and botched it yesterday.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:16]:
Okay, you're getting so funny.
Morgan Krueger [00:03:19]:
And then lastly, the thing I could think of, which really clicked for me for me, that dogs totally prepare you. My son the other day comes to me. He's 4, and he was, like, in a tizzy. And he's, like, shaking his body. He's like, mommy, Mommy, Mommy, My booty is scratchy. And he gets on the ground and he starts dragging his booty. No, he doesn't. This was my dog.
Morgan Krueger [00:03:38]:
This was my dog June four years ago. And I know how to handle this situation because I have had a dog. So any dog moms out there, or even mom moms, like, think back to those years God is in that he is preparing you. And I just see his grace all over it. So that's my opinion.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:57]:
That is so funny.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:58]:
That is such a good. I mean, I'm biased because I have a dog. And I. Yeah, was about to just. I was about to sell the dog a month in. I was like, this dog is going to kill me. And our. I think our listeners know because I might have said this before, but I put on my story, my Instagram story one time.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:15]:
I was like, puppies are so difficult, and I'm having such a hard time. But I feel bad because I know that there's moms out there with newborns and that's way harder than this. And I had a mom message me and she's like, just so you know, she goes, she goes, this is my experience, not everyone's experience. But she's like, my puppy was way harder for me than my baby ever was. And I was like, I don't. I mean, I, I. That made me feel better.
Morgan Krueger [00:04:38]:
But at least the baby has a diaper on. The baby's diaper. Like the, the puppies are just peeing everywhere.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:04:46]:
Chaos that ensues, obviously. Highs and lows of motherhood. Highs and lows of, of being a puppy mom. But I'm just telling you, it is good preparation.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:54]:
So that makes.
Morgan Krueger [00:04:55]:
Take that for what it's worth. I know some people might disagree because they are two different categories, but there are some valuable lessons.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:02]:
What a great unpopular.
Morgan Krueger [00:05:03]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:04]:
I think that's a great one. I would agree. I don't have a dog, but I think that probably does prepare you for being a mom. 100%. Did you say that your dog's name is June?
Morgan Krueger [00:05:14]:
Yes, June.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:16]:
I have a. Not my. It's our, our childhood family dog's name is June. She's a white lab June bug.
Morgan Krueger [00:05:21]:
Oh, Mars is a golden retriever. I was. Because if I'm totally honest, another unpopular opinion is once you have kids, you may want to get rid of your dog. Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:31]:
That's also what I've all.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:32]:
I've heard that too. I've heard that.
Morgan Krueger [00:05:34]:
Oh, it's so bad. And I'm like, I'm not a dog hater, but this dog's gonna go because I'm nursing and this dog comes and licks my knee. I'm going to lose it because I have no capacity to give more of myself. Anyways, we love our dog. Our dog now belongs to my in laws. Shout out to Mike and Marcia. They have adopted her. We don't even talk about it anymore.
Morgan Krueger [00:05:51]:
No one talks about the fact that she was our dog way before we had kids. But anyways, so, yes, I love her.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:58]:
When, when you, when you gave her to them, were the boys, like, did they ask any questions about it? Did you guys have to come up with some kind of a storyline or what?
Morgan Krueger [00:06:05]:
Thankfully, at that point, our son was too young. I was pregnant with our second, and then we had our kids really close in age. So I don't think that my oldest was lights on enough to like, fully track with it. I don't think he has a single memory of June being our dog. Like, I don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:20]:
That's awesome.
Morgan Krueger [00:06:21]:
I think if we never told him, he would never know. So anyways.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:26]:
That's hilarious.
Morgan Krueger [00:06:27]:
Yeah. It's never talked about. It's like the thing that nobody. It's the elephant in the room.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:31]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:32]:
Yeah. Especially golden, because Golden's are like, pet me at all times.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:36]:
Oh, my God.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:36]:
I need attention at all.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:38]:
Yes.
Morgan Krueger [00:06:38]:
Yeah. But she's like one of those. They're the best. And. And before kids and after kids. I feel like I sound so bad. You love that about them. But June's definitely like.
Morgan Krueger [00:06:48]:
She's. She. She'll come up to your leg and, like, not hump it, but do, like a side thing. And I'm. Use your leg as, like, a pole to get scratched. And I'm just like, yeah, I can't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:58]:
Like, I'm like, sorry, I'm overstimulated.
Morgan Krueger [00:07:00]:
I have too many people talking over stimulation. It's. That's all. That's all it is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:04]:
Also anyway, the shedding. Because, I mean, that's a shedding dog. So you're like, okay, so we're just going to like. We'll have hair.
Morgan Krueger [00:07:12]:
Yes, well. And I'm like, in postpartum. I'm like, my hair is falling out. Your hair is falling out. There's not enough. There's not enough ground our flowers for all of our hair.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:21]:
That's so funny. Too much.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:23]:
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. Morgan, did you. Did you grow up in Tennessee or have you just been there recently?
Morgan Krueger [00:07:29]:
Yeah, I grew up in Georgia. Small town Georgia. And then I went to. To University of Alabama for college.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:38]:
Roll tides.
Morgan Krueger [00:07:39]:
Yeah. Roll tight. Really?
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:41]:
I mean, no, I'm. I'm okay. I went to Texas Tech, but I love Nick Saban, so that's. Yeah. Oh, okay.
Morgan Krueger [00:07:46]:
Yeah. Yeah, we love him. He's. Yeah, he's our. Our legend. So went to Alabama and a little bit. I mean, I guess about my college story is like, that's where the Lord really got a hold of my heart. And going into college, I just truly had one foot in, one foot out in my faith.
Morgan Krueger [00:08:04]:
And I didn't know how to reconcile the two. And for so long, I thought it was behavior modification. I thought, like, I can will myself into life change. And because God kept sending people from campus ministry, he would send girls from older girls in my sorority, and just. He kept sending people along my path. And I was like, I want what they have and I want what they want for me, but I don't know how to do that. And I. So I tried to, like, behave my way into Life change for so long.
Morgan Krueger [00:08:31]:
And then God was so gracious to me. And actually, it's kind of radical. But after college, I ended up going overseas to East Asia to do college ministry. And, you guys, I was a hot mess. Like, I don't know that I was fully surrendered to Jesus when I decided to go, but God, it, like, it. He made it so abundantly clear I was supposed to go. And the way I see it, too, is like, we are in such a thick culture here of self. We're in such a thick culture of, like, just so many habitual sins that are overlooked and normalized, especially in college.
Morgan Krueger [00:09:04]:
And so he just, like, was like, I'm plucking this girl out of her culture, and I am going to send her far away so that I can quiet the noise and I can finally get through to her. And in God's kindness, you guys, I, like, went over there and I was sharing the gospel with girls every day. Every day, every day. And it was almost like God's like, I'm gonna make you share it and hear it out of your own mouth every single day until you finally believe. And you guys have finally did. And I remember one day I was sharing the gospel with this one college girl, and I started sobbing. She was very confused. She's like, why are you crying? What's happening? It just.
Morgan Krueger [00:09:39]:
It was like, this is true. Jesus gave it all for me on the cross. I had been reconciled to him. I had been made right with the Father. I can let go of my shame. I can let go of my past. And for the first time, it was like, I didn't behave my way into life, change his spirit, like, interceded on my behalf and started to, like, literally, like, wreck my heart in the best way. And so all that to say, I feel like.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:02]:
Back to your question. I mean, I've been a little bit of everywhere. Yeah. But we've been in Tennessee since 2018. And. Yeah. So it's been. It's been really sweet.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:10]:
Wow, that's cool.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:11]:
What brought you to Tennessee?
Morgan Krueger [00:10:14]:
Yeah, crazy story. My husband and I. I met my husband in East Asia. We actually both went to Alabama for school and never met there. We have a million mutual friends. We never knew other. We ended up meeting overseas and dated, got engaged, and then we're living in Texas, so. Been in Texas, too.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:34]:
And wait, so, Morgan, are you a Texas girl?
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:37]:
Yeah. I was going to ask you two questions.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:39]:
A.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:39]:
What sorority were you?
Morgan Krueger [00:10:40]:
Yeah, I was a kd.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:43]:
Okay.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:43]:
Delta.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:44]:
I was a. I was a Kyle Mega. But I prepped Katie and Kai Omega, so I could have gone both ways.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:49]:
Sweet.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:49]:
Yes.
Morgan Krueger [00:10:50]:
Oh, that's so fun. I love it aot. The Katie thing is like, aot. And if I'm honest, I don't think I ever knew what that meant to this day. Can someone tell me, like, shouldn't I know if I'm in the sorority? But I'm like, aot.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:04]:
I know.
Morgan Krueger [00:11:06]:
Wait, so, wait, so you're Texas girl?
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:08]:
Yes. I'm from Austin.
Morgan Krueger [00:11:09]:
What.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:09]:
What partner did you live in?
Morgan Krueger [00:11:10]:
Cool. So my husband's from Keller, right? Outside the DFW area.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:14]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:11:14]:
And so we were living. We were living in Texas. I mean, we were l. In Dallas, not together, but because we were engaged but kind of a mile from each other, which was really sweet. That's really cool. But. So what brought us to Tennessee is we were trying to figure out our life after China, and just, like, where are we supposed to be? What are we supposed to do? I took this, like, random job in property management. I was like, what am I doing with my life? My husband was in chemical sales.
Morgan Krueger [00:11:40]:
He send me, like, pictures and hazmat suit, and I'm like, what are we doing? And long story short, his old youth has to reach out to him out of nowhere and. And just said, hey, I woke up with you on my heart. I live, you know, outside Nashville, and there is a student pastor position opening at my church, the Franklin campus of my church. And I think you should apply. So Ryan had never preached a sermon in his life. He, like, does this video. It was so sweet. That's what I'll say about it.
Morgan Krueger [00:12:10]:
And. But just gave it a good old shot, you know, and then. And they. They brought us to Franklin, and. And he interviewed, and he got the job. And from that point, I feel like the Lord just, like, stayed. Started to lay the foundation for our life and our marriage. And what's really cool is we were talking to a couple last night about that and how that youth.
Morgan Krueger [00:12:30]:
It was his old youth pastor that reached out to him. And so maybe for someone listening, I just want to speak into that. Like, I promise you, we go through seasons where we're like, I don't know what God is up to right now and what he's preparing me for. There are people along the path. There are things that you're doing right now that to you. To you, or maybe to others, feel meaningless or feel small. God is using it. He is always preparing us.
Morgan Krueger [00:12:55]:
I believe that God is the God of the here and now. He's also the God of the Future. Right. And so he's always asking us to sit in this posture of presentness while also spinning his own wheels of his goodness and his plans to prepare the future he has for us. So I just reflect on that season. I'm like, man, God brought someone in Ryan's life when he was in high school that ended up changing the trajectory of our family's life. Like, it's really powerful to think about, so just encourage anyone. God is using what.
Morgan Krueger [00:13:23]:
Whoever is in your life right now, wherever you are, he is using it in the coolest ways.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:27]:
Yeah, I imagine, like, when we get to heaven, I was just talking to someone about this yesterday, and it. We were like, it'd be so cool when you get to heaven if God's like, do you see this? Like, I was working all of these things that you didn't even recognize or see. Yeah, I mean, ours was a little bit more morbid. We were like, I wonder how many times God has saved our lives. Like, you're just, like, swimming in the ocean, and a great white just passes by. Then God's legs you unscathed.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:51]:
Yeah, that's right.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:53]:
But, yeah, that is really cool. Okay, wait, so back to when you were in East Asia, when you met your husband, Were you like, this is the one, or did it take a minute? Like, how did that all happen?
Morgan Krueger [00:14:05]:
I love. I love this conversation, by the way, and I hope people listen. Like, this is why Yalls podcast is so amazing as so many people listen. It's like. Like, people get to sit in on this, like, real conversation between just girls. We're just.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:17]:
Oh, yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:17]:
We're like, in a living room. We're just hanging out.
Morgan Krueger [00:14:19]:
Outside. Girls.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:20]:
Yes, exactly.
Morgan Krueger [00:14:22]:
Yes. I met him, and I was like, oh, there's a. Okay, wait, it's outside. I thought I had a bee in the room.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:28]:
Okay, you're like, sorry, heck, I have to exit. Right? Podcast over. I'm leaving.
Morgan Krueger [00:14:34]:
I do not like bees.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:36]:
No, yeah, I get it.
Morgan Krueger [00:14:37]:
I met him and I just was like, hello. You are so, so cute. I. Tall, dark, and handsome. I had heard about him. I knew he loved Jesus. Obviously, he's, like, coming overseas to do mission work, which is, like, so attractive to me. But I was actually leading our team at the time because I was there for two years.
Morgan Krueger [00:14:54]:
He was there for one year. So the second year. My second year, he came. And so at that point, basically, year one, Jesus wrecked my life, ripped my heart open, gave me a new heart. It was like, full surrender. Year two, I was our team leader. So then he Comes and I was like, okay, hi. And then I was like, shut it down.
Morgan Krueger [00:15:12]:
Like, in my head, I'm like, shut that down. Because I am not going to lead this team and get distracted with this boy. And all these sweet girls are coming, and they've never been to this city. And it's my job to, like, really disciple them and, like, pour into them.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:25]:
Yeah. How old were you at the time?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:28]:
Yeah, 20.
Morgan Krueger [00:15:29]:
That's a good question. I was probably 24.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:32]:
23.
Morgan Krueger [00:15:32]:
24. Cool. Yeah. And then my husband's a year younger. I'm a Ryan. My husband, he wanted. He wanted our wedding hashbag, hashtag, to be cougar Got the Krueger. Because I'm literally.
Morgan Krueger [00:15:43]:
I know, 10 months older, and I'm
Leslie Johnston [00:15:46]:
literally one year old. You have to. That has to be.
Morgan Krueger [00:15:49]:
Yeah, it wasn't. No. It was something so lame that I can't even remember, but I just remember being like, you can put it on a cake at, like, a shower, but we are not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:58]:
Yes. This is for your bachelor party and nothing else ever. Yes. That's hilarious.
Morgan Krueger [00:16:03]:
He's just so. He's so. He gives me such a hard time. And we get one month out of the whole year that we are the same age. But anyway, so we basically, like, not only didn't like each other for the first half of the year, but we, like, didn't speak to each other because I think I was like, I need to get as far away from this guy as possible. And turns out he felt a little bit of the same way. So all that to say, it was cool, though, looking back. Like, I love telling people, like, we actually probably crossed paths so many times in college and never met each other.
Morgan Krueger [00:16:33]:
Because I. If you look at, like, if someone out there hasn't read Luke 15, I encourage you to do so. But a lot of us know the story. It's the prodigal son. And so much of my story was truly, like, the. I was the prodigal son. I was the one who, like, ran so far from God. I was welcomed home.
Morgan Krueger [00:16:51]:
I had this, like, great understanding of grace, like, this kindness of God that leads us to life change and leads us to repentance. But it's because I was the prodigal son. And I would say Ryan's testimony, he would say this. He was so much of the older brother. He was the one that's like, God, I've been here. I've done all the right things, you know? And, like, that's more of him, his struggle. And it's been so Cool to see how he's brought the two of us together to, like, teach each other about grace and truth and how beautiful they are when they're working in tandem. But with that being said, if I had met Ryan in college, it would have been a hot mess.
Morgan Krueger [00:17:22]:
Like, I don't think I would have been at all. Because of my own shame. I don't think I would have been at all interested in him, and I don't think he'd be interested in me at the time either. So I do see God's sovereignty just over the timing. But, yeah, I mean, I liked him immediately. Like, let's be honest, it was. Yeah, we definitely hit it off and then didn't talk. And then finally we're like, okay, let's be friends and let's quickly date.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:45]:
And, yeah, that feels like Christian. Christian movie soap opera, where it's like, we were overseas on missions and we saw each other and we were like, we're in love, but we just. We have to. We can't do this. We have to shut it down. Like, it's just like, I love it. It's right. That's right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:59]:
Can you go back for a second? You were talking about how. And you were talking about in college, I believe, and this is. This is a huge part of kind of your ministry, too. The idea of. I think you had it really beautifully written. It was like exchanging shame for redemption or like, the spaces in your past that held shame. Open those spaces up to Jesus, invite his redemption, and I'm butchering it. You're the one that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:19]:
That writes it and says you said it perfect. But can you speak a little bit to the role that shame has played in your story and how you. How you've come to navigate that as now a follower of Jesus wherever you want to start, however you want to take it.
Morgan Krueger [00:18:33]:
Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that we kind of have covered a little bit of, like, the college years, and I think so many girls can relate with that. But what I will say about shame, I think way before women or girls out there know what shame is, they've felt it. Like, a lot of people out there are battling, like, really intense, really heavy shame, but they don't know how to identify it. And so with that, like, I kind of set out, I will say, is, like, when God took me from college to East Asia, he really showed me, like, you are not what you've done. And I think that's the danger of what shame does it. If we go back to the garden, you Know the enemy tempted Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit.
Morgan Krueger [00:19:20]:
Obviously Eve did first gave it to Adam. And it says immediately after, they hid themselves because they realized they were naked. And they didn't just hide themselves, they hid themselves from God. And if, if shame was really more attached to what we've done, Adam and Eve actually would have just covered the apple. Like, that's what I think about all the time. Like, if shame wasn't so dangerous as an attack on our identity, they would have covered the object of the broken situation. But that's not what they did. They covered themselves.
Morgan Krueger [00:19:48]:
And so I think that that shows how dangerous shame is, because it's not just about what you've done, it's now who you are. It's a matter of our identity. And the reason that the enemy attacks that you so heavily in so many women's lives is because if we can hide from God, then the enemy thinks he's won the victory because he's driven a wedge between us and the God who loves us, Caesar, who did what he continues to do, what he did in the garden, which is to call out to us. He said to Adam, Eve, where are you? Which I love. He's just like, I'm not gonna delay in looking for you. You are my beloved, you are my child. But that was my story for so long. And because of that, I believe the lie that I was disqualified for the life that God had for me because of my past.
Morgan Krueger [00:20:31]:
And what I realized, if I'm honest, you guys, I think a lot of Jesus loving women out there can still be in the grips of shame. Because it was 2019, I was surrendered to Jesus. I had seen him do so much in my life. I was married and am married to a wonderful, God fearing man. We're in this beautiful marriage. But I was still plagued by my past. And what I realized is that I was always so afraid to go back to my past and with Jesus because I didn't understand that while the enemy just wants to kind of take us back to our past for us to just relive it, rehash it, rehab those flashbacks, Jesus is like, I won't just take you back to relive it, I'll actually take you back to redeem it. And so that's what I did.
Morgan Krueger [00:21:15]:
I started to say, okay, God, I'll go back if it's with you, and I'll go back if you will redeem it. And again, to simplify the definition of redemption, I feel like it's this lofty Christian phrase and everyone's like, what does that even mean?
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:26]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:21:26]:
And what does it look like? It's a simple phrase that I've heard for redemption just simply means to take back. To redeem means to take back. When Joseph looked at his brothers in the Old Testament, in Genesis, and said what the enemy meant for evil, God has used it for good. God took back that broken situation, and he used it to further his purposes and his plans. And so I just. I had a long list of things, you guys. And so for us, shame can look like it re. Shame represents something, and shame also attaches itself to something.
Morgan Krueger [00:21:54]:
So it could be a hometown, it could be a memory, it can be a relationship, it can be a family wound, it can be a. Some sort of sexual sin. Whether, unfortunately, it's something you've done or something that's been done to you. It's a whole other, like, conversation. But shame attaches itself to things. So what I said to the Lord is like, lord, I'm going to dive into your word. I'm going to look at the intentional ways that Jesus pursued women in Scripture. If you look at the New Testament, almost every single woman recorded that Jesus had an interaction with her struggle with shame.
Morgan Krueger [00:22:24]:
It was hiddenness, it was brokenness. And. And it took that root of shame. And so I just was like, I want to know how the actual Jesus of the Bible addresses shame. And it was really cool back in 2019. He's still doing it today. But to see how the God of the Bible, how to. To see the Jesus of the gospels show up as.
Morgan Krueger [00:22:44]:
The Jesus of my story was really powerful. And you guys, I mean, I can share. I could share so many stories, but he's redeemed places in my hometown. He's redeemed past memories, he's redeemed past relationships. He's redeemed purity. He's redeemed, yeah, sexual sin, and he's redeemed motherhood, fatherhood. I mean, you name it. He has done so much in my life.
Morgan Krueger [00:23:04]:
And. And so with that, I just. I'm so passionate about that because we know that full redemption's coming one day. But that doesn't mean on this side of heaven, Jesus doesn't have really good plans to free us from. From a lot of that shame that we're carrying.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:19]:
That's so good. What. What do you think, like, when you look back when was, like, your first memory of, like, oh, I feel shame, or, like, I. You don't have to say what it was, but just when did it. Did it grow in like, oh, when I hit college, I really felt the weight of it. Or was it something even as a. Like, when you were young, when did you, like, actually recognize, oh, this is shame?
Morgan Krueger [00:23:44]:
Yeah. I mean, I would honestly say my true understanding of shame kind of came about back in 2019, which is why I like talking about that, because it was when I was walking with Jesus. It wasn't like, I think so many of us think, okay, we give our lives to Jesus. All right? The old is gone. It's gone. But we know we're created to be way more complex than that. And we also can misread scriptures, you know, in the Old Testament, when, you know, it's that whole idea of, like, don't look back, right? It was like, loft wife who looked back and she burned. You know, that whole story, and it's like, don't look back.
Morgan Krueger [00:24:20]:
We kind of take that out of context, and then we misrepresent that idea. And so it was back in 2019, where I was like, wow. I think the more I grow in Christ, the more awareness of my past is growing. And I don't know what to do with this, because I do think spiritual maturity, when it comes, we start to realize some of our old patterns, our old ways of thinking, things that were once normalized to us, that we go, whoa, that is not normal anymore. And I know this is like, I'm gonna take the smallest example just to, like, share the. The bigger idea. But for me, one little idea of that is even, like, cussing. Like, it's so interesting.
Morgan Krueger [00:24:59]:
Like, I used to cuss all the time in high school. I'm just picking kind of a light one. No, it's. I used to cuss so much in high school, and it was so. It was just normal because everyone around me was doing that. And then, like, I'll go home and I'll talk to a friend, and she drops an F bomb, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, because it's just this idea of, like, my life has gone in this kind of other direction, and I don't really do life with people that are dropping F bombs just naturally. I mean, it's not that I don't enter into people's worlds, but the people that speak into my life don't necessarily speak like that anymore.
Morgan Krueger [00:25:33]:
So then I'll go back, and it's so shocking to me. So that's a tiny one. So. But let's take heavier topics, right? Like our sexual sin. Let's take things like, you know, maybe abuse that people have suffered or things that we. Toxic relationships. That's a huge one, right? We think something is so normal because it's normal to us. It's normal to the people around us.
Morgan Krueger [00:25:54]:
And it's also glamorized by places like Hollywood and social media and even music that we listen to, but now that we listen to. But, you know, mainstream music out there glorifies toxic relationships. And so because of that, once we are in Christ, we start walking with him, we start being changed by him and his Word. We look back and we go, oh, my goodness, I cannot believe that. At one time, that was all I knew, and that was normal to me. So I think what was happening in 2019 is I was realizing that all these thought patterns I had, all these things that I struggled with, were so far from God's best for me, and I didn't know what to do with them. And that is where I realized, wow, I have. I.
Morgan Krueger [00:26:38]:
I am struggling to not believe that those mistakes and that sin and that brokenness is who I am and how do I move forward in this? And so I. I think it was then, like, I. But it. Not that I didn't wrestle with it my entire life. I think people pleasing can lead to shame. I think that self preservation can lead to shame. There's so many different things. Anything that's apart from God's design is going to lead to shame, just like we see in that model in Genesis 3.
Morgan Krueger [00:27:01]:
But I would say that's really what it is. But again, you know, that's where Jesus was like, take my hand, take your Bible, open it up and. And let me take you back to some of those really, really heavy places. And let me. Let me take it back. Wow. Let me redeem it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:19]:
Yeah, sorry.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:20]:
What did it look like to actually enter into that with Jesus? Was it like, did it all of a sudden feel like, oh, my gosh, he's kind of released some of the shame off me? Or was it like, oh, this was a process? And was there any part of you that wanted to, like, turn back when it started to get difficult to actually confront your shame?
Morgan Krueger [00:27:40]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, all of the above. It. I would say it was a. I would say the terms of redemption, his kindness.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:50]:
He.
Morgan Krueger [00:27:51]:
I don't believe that God reveals everything to us at one time, because if that were the case, I think we'd break. Like, I think if in 2019, he just revealed it all about every area of my past that was so incredibly broken and unredeemed at that point. I think that it would crush me. But what he did is, like, he almost chipped away. Like, for example. I'll share this story with you guys. Oh, this story gets me emotional, but I think it's a good model of. Of trying to answer your question.
Morgan Krueger [00:28:21]:
Like, how does he actually enter in? And what does that look like for the individual? So when I was in high school and college, I was not walking with the Lord. And because of that, I believe that apart from Christ, it's nearly impossible to see the value in the dignity that's put on a human life. And so with that, I. All I knew also with that is toxic relationships. And so there were mornings I would wake up and obviously enter into sexual sin from the night before. And I would go, by recommendation of. Of people in my life at the time, I would go and take the very popular, you know, plan B pill. And so, you know, those were flashes in the pan at the time.
Morgan Krueger [00:29:07]:
And so years later, you know, Jesus enters into my life. He radically just brings me to this place of surrender. I end up meeting my husband, and we get married, and God is just doing so much. Then there was this season, right, of the shame that I started to really experience. And one of the things that the Lord brought back to my memory. Jesus, by the way, is not the one bringing shame. But whenever Jesus is like, hey, it's time to really deal with this and let me redeem it. The enemy is right there waiting to attack.
Morgan Krueger [00:29:37]:
Because these are really heavy topics when some, you know, when we're willing to enter into our past. And so with that, it was one of those. Hang on, I'm gonna go on. Do not disturb. Even though I know you don't even have to edit this out, but it's annoying me that my phone is dinging. Oh, we don't hear that. You don't hear it?
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:56]:
No. Yeah. Okay.
Morgan Krueger [00:29:58]:
For my own sanity, I'm too ab. Okay. Okay. And so. So one of the areas he revealed to me was, hey, remember this is. It was almost as if I had forgotten that that was a part of my life. And at that point, I was married. I mean, I'm still married, but I was married at that point being like, oh, my goodness, I thought I shared everything with Ryan.
Morgan Krueger [00:30:24]:
And this is a whole area that I've never shared because it was so deeply, like, embedded into the, like, subconscious of my soul because I had buried it for so long. And so I go into this panic. And with that, also in that season, we were trying to start a family, and I think that that was part of It. I. It hit me as I was longing. It took us a little while to get pregnant, so I'm here longing for a child. I'm praying for a child. And all those past memories of the times where I could have easily been pregnant.
Morgan Krueger [00:30:57]:
And I decided to take matters into my own hands through that pill. And it. The devastation and the shame that hit me in that season was so heavy and so intense that I thought, yeah, I'm disqualified. Like, even though I know God is not a God that would actually, like, punish me for decisions I made apart, like, apart from him, like, there's no way that I'm not somehow being punished or that my body is now broken because of. Of decisions that I made. And so I was in a turmoil. Turmoil, you guys, I just was so, like, how do I move forward in this? God, what is redemption look like? And I prayed that prayer, God, redeem this. Take it back.
Morgan Krueger [00:31:37]:
I don't even know what that looks like, but remove the shame and replace it with redemption. Like, keep writing this story. I trust you, God. And so I decided that there would be a morning where I would open up to Ryan. And I knew I was going to share it with him, but I was nervous, right? Even though, like, my husband's so gracious, but this was such a part of my life that I never shared with him, and it was really grieving me. And so there was like a morning we're sitting on our couches, and I just remember being like, this is the moment God is asking me to, like, prompt this conversation and. And let. Let this person in.
Morgan Krueger [00:32:11]:
And so I turned to him and I just said, I have something to share. And I cried and I shared and I said, I've been believing lot that I'm just qualified to be a mom because of decisions I made in my past. And, you know, he reached out his hands and just prayed over me. It was such a holy, special moment and such a reflection of God's true heart for us. And you guys, I. I don't share this out of a way of. There is no formula to the plan that God's going to write in our life, but he writes the most beautiful, special stories for each of our lives that are so tailored to us. Basically, I wake up the next next morning, and I was leaving church.
Morgan Krueger [00:32:44]:
It was a Sunday. I left church, and I went to Walmart because I was like, I really want some Pringles. And I, like, never eat Pringles. I'm not like a Pringle girl. I mean, they're pretty good. I Just don't think to eat them. And so I go to Walmart, I'm like, getting these Pringles, and I'm like, I feel like I should take a pregnancy test. And so I grab a pregnancy test and I run home and I'm meeting friends for lunch.
Morgan Krueger [00:33:04]:
So I'm in a hurry and I take it and it immediately pops up that it's positive. And you guys, we had waited for about hours, two, two years to have a baby. And, and what I will say again, God is going to write such a unique story for every single person. But I look back on that and I'm like, God, you gave me the greatest gift to send me into motherhood freed from that lie, that because of my past, I am disqualified. And his kindness was just all over that season. And so now I will say, when I think about my motherhood journey, I don't think back to those pills. Like, he has spoken into, that he has redeemed, that he has forgiven me. I think about the ways that he showed up that morning where I was willing to let somebody in, I was willing to let my husband in.
Morgan Krueger [00:33:46]:
And God was writing a story all along. I was already pregnant at that point, and he wanted to send me into motherhood free. And so I just feel like, you know, and there's so many stories. If, if people haven't read John 21, I would just encourage you guys to turn there today, wherever you find yourself. If you're like, ah, I never know what to read in the Bible, go to John 21 and look at the. That Jesus enters into Peter's story and just does that same model of like, I'm gonna take this charcoal fire. I'm gonna take these three denials, and I'm gonna recreate the scene. And I'm gonna ask you three times, do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? So now when Peter looks at that charcoal fire, he doesn't see his mistake.
Morgan Krueger [00:34:25]:
He doesn't see his sin. He sees the redeeming hand of God. When I see my motherhood journey, I do not see those pills. I see the redeeming hand of God and his grace all over them. So I hope that's a encouragement to somebody out there that, like, shame is a powerful force, but love and grace in the presence of Jesus is. Is even more powerful. And you're not too far gone.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:45]:
I'm so thankful that you shared that story, and I'm thankful for this specific example, too. Thank you for being vulnerable about that. Because I think we talk about Redemption as a word that we tend to say and skip over, and the idea of it can get lost when it's not tied to specific instances of how God is able to take something that is. Is broken and then turn it into something truly beautiful. And I was thinking about, you know, the moment that got. That God resurfaced, that memory of taking those pills for you and that in between of when the memory resurfaced, and then right before you share that with your husband. And I was. I was just thinking for the listeners who maybe are in.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:25]:
Maybe they're in a moment where they're realizing, I'm trapped in shame over this thing that I did or over this.
Morgan Krueger [00:35:31]:
This.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:31]:
This season that I had, I would imagine that the enemy is right there with them, basically trying to speak all kinds of lies about why they should not open up, share and reveal whatever that thing is. And that's one of the ways that shame, like, flourishes is. Is when it festers by itself. Right. It's like, shame loves a hiding place. It loves secrecy, because then no one else can touch it. No one else can speak to it. And so I'd be curious from your perspective, like, what are the lies that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:03]:
That shame speaks to you about your past that makes people not want to go forward with letting God redeem those things? Is it like, you know, if people knew that, then, like, you said, you'd be disqualified. Like, that feels like one of the lies. Right. If people knew that, you'd be disqualified.
Morgan Krueger [00:36:20]:
But what are some of the other
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:21]:
things that people hear when they're trapped in their shame? That does not. That keeps them from moving forward with it that we need to recognize. No, those are lies. That's not the truth of God.
Morgan Krueger [00:36:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Tim Keller, what does he say? Like, our greatest desire is to be seen, known, and loved and that he base. I mean, I'm summarizing, but he's like, it's also our greatest fear.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:41]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:36:41]:
That will be seen and known and not loved. And so I think that that ties into what you're saying of, like, the. The fear of playing out the scenario in our heads of actually walking out. Being known like it is. And I will say, like, I don't want to sugarcoat and say it's not scary.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:01]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:37:02]:
Because it is. And, like, I remember this season of my life where I was like, I don't think anyone knows my full story. And I was walking with Jesus, you guys. I was like, I don't think anyone knows my full story. And that's why I'm so passionate about.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:15]:
And.
Morgan Krueger [00:37:15]:
And we obviously get this from the Bible. I mean, James says, like, basically, like, pray for one another. Like, lay your hands on one another, walk alongside each other that you might be healed. Like, there's healing power in that. And so I remember that season where I was like, okay, not everyone needs to know everything about my story, but everybody I believe needs somebody who knows everything about our story. And so I started to pray.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:41]:
Who.
Morgan Krueger [00:37:41]:
Who could that be? And I thought of my friend Dottie, and she's just, like, the best. Like, Jesus loving. She has just the most. Most graceful presence about her. Like, reflects Jesus in so many beautiful ways. But I. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I think the fear and the lie was like, what's actually gonna come out of my mouth? Like, how can I even let myself hear this? I actually had that fear.
Morgan Krueger [00:38:04]:
I was like, I fear hearing my own voice say these things because is that gonna crush me? Like, is it gonna break me if this comes out of the shadows? And I. I think that goes back to why it's so important that we choose the right people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:18]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:38:19]:
To sit with us and know our stories. And I remember sitting with Doy, and it was super awkward. Like, I don't want to tell anyone out there. Like, the Holy Spirit was just present, and there was a spirit of peace. Like, I was sweating. Like, my butt sweat was crazy. Like. Like, I remember under my bra, I
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:36]:
was like, oh, you're like, I need a shower.
Morgan Krueger [00:38:38]:
I'm gonna have to burn this bra. Like, I'm just a puddle of sweat. It was awkward, but it's. It's. It's what you gain. What you gain when you face the lies. Like, you're talking about Morgan of like, will I be loved? Will I even be able to say it? Like, what will people's reaction be? Will I be met with grace? I mean, I think that's a big one. Like, are people.
Morgan Krueger [00:39:02]:
And I think a scary one, too. Let's just make me think of so many lies. Like, we fear that we're gonna dump all of our stuff and put it out there, whether it's to God or to a person. And there's going to be radio silence. And sometimes our fears come from real places. Like, have. Maybe someone out there has shared something really hard and vulnerable with a friend before, and there was, like, no follow up. Like, it was like, thanks for sharing.
Morgan Krueger [00:39:28]:
And that person even. Maybe meant well. But then months went by and nobody even checked in to say, like, hey, how is that going? Or, hey, I know, we talked about. And I just want you to know, like, I haven't forgotten. And I see you in that. Like, sometimes we feel like we dump all of our stuff on somebody, and then it's just over. And for us, it's not over. And so.
Morgan Krueger [00:39:48]:
But what I will say, and I learned this in my experience with Dottie. I learned this, and I learned this over and over again. And just, like, vulnerability with my husband. What you gain? Freedom, peace, joy. Like, the literal physiological response that happens when we're willing to take God at his word, that there's healing power when we pray for one another and when we are known by one another. What you gain in that is. Is so much greater than anything you'd ever lose. Like, yes, I lost a bra that day.
Morgan Krueger [00:40:14]:
Okay, I did have to burn it. But what I gained was freedom. What I gained is the Lord using that friend to show me that the cross really is sufficient for me and in my brokenness. And. And so that would be my encouragement to the lies. Like, think about that. Like, be real about the. The fears that you have of why you don't want to step into the light and then weigh them of what you might lose with what you'll gain.
Morgan Krueger [00:40:41]:
And I promise you, if you search the word of God, if you read scriptures like John 4, John 8, John 21, Luke 15, what you will gain will always be so much greater than anything you would ever lose.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:53]:
Wow. Yeah. Isn't it funny how we always think, oh, I don't want to have to go share this with someone because what if they like me less? Or what if they think differently of me? Or what if they don't respond well? But to be honest, it's like, no one wants to be friends with someone who is perfect and has it all together.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:09]:
Right?
Leslie Johnston [00:41:10]:
Like, we think of, like, the. The best people we know in our lives that we know and love. It's not because they're perfect or they never mess up or they never have had, like, shame. Honestly, I remember in college, it was probably the first time that I was in a small group. They put all of us freshmen together, and it was totally random, and it was half the time weird, but half the time great. And I remember they had us all share our stories one day, and we sat down, and this was a group originally that I was like, you know, you take stock freshman year, you're like, okay, I think I could be friends with you. No. No, maybe.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:42]:
And so you go around and you're like, I just don't know. Like, I don't know if I get along with these people very well. And we sat down and everybody shared their testimony. And it was like, you could take as long as you want. It was like, it was one of those marathon, extended marathon. But at the end, I remember I loved every person in that group so much more because I knew their story. The. The weird, quirky mannerisms people had.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:06]:
They made sense from what they had gone through and the things they had walked through. And I remember that day, it was like a light bulb moment where I was like, I think if there's anybody in my life that I don't love, it's because I don't truly know their story. And I think it's a good reminder for us to be like, be honest with people. Like, nobody wants just the buttoned up version of you. If anything, that's creating a distance from you and that person. And honestly, you and God, when you choose to not open up and be real about what's happening in your life, no matter if that makes them think somewhat differently about you. But if in most ways, I think we have to remind ourselves, like, I think it's. They're gonna think better of you.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:44]:
Like, we sat down, we have a really close knit small group, and it's been the last couple years, and we did a night where all of us girls got together and we called it Confessions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:55]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:56]:
And it was like, everybody just went around and kind of just like confessed to, like, whatever they wanted to. And I think for the first time, for a lot of those girls in the group, it was like the first time they've ever shared something about that. And I think people walked away feeling like, I feel so much freer. And even I felt that way. I was like, I'm saying stuff that I've never said before. And I walked away going like, it's not like that is something that's like completely gone or like, oh, that doesn't ever bother me or ever whatever. But it was this moment of, like, when you do release it. And I think the Bible is clear about that.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:33]:
Like, hey, confess your sins to one another and you'll be healed. And so I think sometimes we think, well, maybe just God and I can figure this out and I don't have to share it with anybody.
Morgan Krueger [00:43:43]:
Right?
Leslie Johnston [00:43:44]:
And I think God's like, no, no. There is so much healing and actually sharing with other people, and I think that's for our own good. But I also think it's for the good of other people to see that.
Morgan Krueger [00:43:54]:
So, yeah, gosh, that's Such a good point. And, like, it makes me think of Morgan, like, just even going back to those lies. Like, I think a lot of us carry this lie that we are not worth someone's time. Like, that held me back for a long time. I'm like, what, am I just gonna ask someone to just, like, sit there and listen to me? That sounds crazy. And, like, from a young age, I don't know, I never wanted to be an inconvenience to anyone. Like, I remember my mom would forget my lunch money and I would call her in tears at school, and she, like, just borrow from Lindsay and I'll pay her mom, I guess. No, you know, like, I just had this, like, this deep rooted fear of being an inconvenience.
Morgan Krueger [00:44:36]:
And I think that runs deep in a lot of us in different ways. And I just want to speak to that girl because I am that girl. Like, I. You have worth and dignity. And you were created in the imago day, the image of God. You are worth someone's time. And I bet you that there is someone in your life that would not feel inconvenienced, but actually feels so deeply honored. Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:44:57]:
That you would ask them to sit and listen to your story and create a little bit of space for you. And on a. It's kind of funny. I was on a plane. This is like. Like, kind of brings this point home. But I was on a plane one time, and I. My friend sitting next to me was like, hey, can have a piece of gum? And I was like, yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:45:17]:
I pull out a piece and she goes, oh, I only want half. And I was like. And it was like the little tiny pieces of gum. And I was like, what do you mean you only want half? She's like, oh, I. I just want. I. I just want to. She, like, stuttered over, I just want a piece of gum.
Morgan Krueger [00:45:30]:
I said, that's so weird. Like, you really just want to chew half a piece. She goes, okay, well, in high school, like, there was this girl who always had the gum and she would. She would get. Give everyone a whole piece and only me a half piece. And I just always felt like I wasn't worthy of a whole piece of gum. I. It's.
Morgan Krueger [00:45:47]:
I know. I look at her, I was like, you are worthy of a whole piece of it. And like, in the same way, I would just preach to that friend, like, into anyone out there listening, like, you're worthy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:57]:
Yes.
Morgan Krueger [00:45:58]:
Of someone sitting and creating space for you. That is what Jesus did. And if you're like, where. Where can I get A picture of that in scripture, John 4 is the coolest picture of that. Jesus didn't just enter into her story. He literally took the long way to meet with this girl and to show her that he, like, he deems her worthy and delights to create space for her to just hear her story and to know her heart and to set her free. Yeah. And so you're worthy of a whole piece of gum and you're worthy of someone spending a little bit of time on you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:28]:
You get two pieces of gum, girl.
Morgan Krueger [00:46:31]:
I was like, you get the who pack.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:33]:
Whole pack.
Morgan Krueger [00:46:34]:
I love.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:35]:
I. I really resonate with that. I am a people pleaser and, and have terrified of inconveniencing. And I don't even think it's just the fear of inconveniencing someone by taking their time. I also think there's the added stress of what if who I am and what I share adds burden onto them that I could have taken care of with just me by myself. And I think that's another lie from the enemy, that, that what you have shouldn't be shared because it'll inconvenience or burden other people. That's the enemy talking. That's not who God is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:07]:
God. God is like very clearly says in his word, just the way that you described that in our sharing with one another, there is healing that is accomplished with that. I also want to go back to something that you said because I've never heard this before and I'm kind of blown away by it and can't stop thinking about it. The reality that back in the garden, when Adam and Eve fell, their first instinct was not to cover the apple, it was to cover themselves, which I've never heard that before and think that is so profound and is a really good reason why we have to deal with shame. Because shame is not about the thing that you did, it's about the thing that you did, changing the way that you feel about who you are. And I think that's the piece of it that breaks God's heart the most. Right. Obviously, he's holy and he's righteous and sin grieves him.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:55]:
And so I think our. I know that our sin does break his heart, but additionally to that, the, the way that sin changes our perception of ourselves breaks God's heart. Because shame is. I. Is an identity issue. It's not just like a, a separate thing from you. It's not, I did something wrong over there, but that stays over there. It's no, I did something wrong over there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:17]:
And now that has shifted how I see myself and by, by correlation, how I think God sees me too. And that's why it's such a huge deal to deal with it. Because shame is an identity thing. And, and I was curious if you could make this distinction, the difference between shame and conviction, because I don't know that we as a Christian church know what to do when things feel heavy or sensitive or when, like, our spirit kicks in. Like, I don't think people know always how to distinguish between the things that we feel when it comes to our shortcomings.
Morgan Krueger [00:48:55]:
So will you speak to that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:56]:
Like, yeah, shame versus conviction.
Morgan Krueger [00:48:59]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:00]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:49:00]:
And I, I will say most of the time you are gonna have to face shame and conviction at the same time. Because anytime that the Holy Spirit is trying to do a good work in you, the enemy is going to be right there trying to destroy, distort the good thing. That's what he did with the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil good thing. So let's distort that because it's really important to the heart of God.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:26]:
Right?
Morgan Krueger [00:49:26]:
Conviction is really important to the heart of God. But what I would say is conviction is going to bid you to come to Jesus. It's going to be that voice in the garden where God says, where are you? He needed to address the Holy Spirit when he convicts that us, there is going to be a need to address the sin going on in our heart or the situation or the toxicity or the, the brokenness, whatever it is, there's going to be a need to address it. But it's gonna say it's gonna be the voice of God saying, where are you? Like, come to me, I'm calling to you. Shame is actually going to do the polar opposite. It's going to say, you need to go and hide yourself. You need to go distance yourself from God and from others. Like we said, shameful feeds on isolation.
Morgan Krueger [00:50:14]:
Shame, you know, I mean, shame feeds on isolation and it attaches itself to things with our identity. So I would say understanding the action step with both and being able to say, this is not the spirit of God that's causing me this shame because it's actually just, just forcing me to hide or like tempting me to run away from the God who showed up in the middle of Genesis 3, in the middle of the mess, the Jesus who showed up in the middle of the woman at the Wells mess and the woman caught in adultery and Peter's mess and, and said, let's, let's like, like come to me and let's Figure this out together. So I would say, like, what's the result of the. The. The battle that you're facing? Is it. Is it calling you to come to Jesus, even though that's uncomfortable and that's hard? Is it calling you to open up to somebody and to call that friend and to confess your sin? Or is it calling you into isolation? And I think that's the best way we can kind of know the distinction. But most of the time, if you're going to be convicted by the Holy Spirit, there's going to be a temptation not from the Lord, but from the enemy to battle the shame as well.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:23]:
Yeah, it's really great.
Morgan Krueger [00:51:24]:
That is really good.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:25]:
It makes me think of, like, your whole time talking, especially when you shared kind of that intimate story, was the fact that you had to take a step as well. I think, yes, sometimes we think, like, like, God, just heal me from the shame. But I think you took a step not only talking to your friend, but also talking to your husband. But I think it's a step towards God to be like, hey, I'm moving towards you, not away, which is hard when you're battling shame. But also the fact that, like, you have opened yourself up to this, but you made a step yourself and an actual action step. I think that's a good reminder. It just got me thinking, like, that's a great reminder for me and for everybody else to be like, there may be a moment where you're just sitting in shame and you're not. You're trying to hide, but you actually need to take a step.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:14]:
And then therefore, also when God does meet you there, just like he did with you, you had the opportunity after that to go back probably. You probably had the opportunity where Satan's like, I'll be right here. If you want to go back on the shame train of like. Like, I can. We could spiral again. We can do that. But I think sometimes we have to remember, like, you do have some control. Like, once God meets you and once he goes, like, I have freed you from this.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:42]:
Like, you can walk forward and not in shame. I think we have to choose every day to do that still. Like, I think learning to let go. And also I've heard before, which I don't know what you think about this phrase, but how someone was like, if you keep going back to shame and keep. Keep kind of beating yourself up over the things that you've done, you're basically telling God, like, what he did on the cross wasn't enough because you're going, oh, No, I need to fix the thing that I did and Jesus wasn't enough. And so I think it's a good reminder to be like, wait, no, I don't believe that. So why am I letting myself do this over and over again?
Morgan Krueger [00:53:18]:
So that's good. That's beautiful. Yeah, it is. It's. It's. At the end of the day, it's taking God at his word. And I love that you talked about the, this step because I think, like, I don't know about y'.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:28]:
All.
Morgan Krueger [00:53:28]:
I love good action step. I love, like, tell me what I can do to get the solution I want. And you know, like, obviously we're called to stewardship and so many different things in our life, but sometimes that can rear its ugly head into, like, oh, I can solve my own problems. But what you're talking about, Leslie, is this beautiful step of like, when we, when we choose to open up, when we choose to go to God, when we choose to do the thing he's asking us to do, even if it's. That's scary. It's basically this response to God of like, I trust you. Like, this is scary. This is hard.
Morgan Krueger [00:53:58]:
I feel so exposed. But I trust you. I'm not trying to solve my issues, but this step is a declaration that I am taking you at your word. And I think those action steps are the ones that we, we need. We don't need the formulas, we don't need the strategies, we don't need the ten step program, but we just need the step of like, almost. The step is like us falling into him and not to sound so woo woo, like emotional Christian, but like, it is that step of like, I, I just trust you, God. I trust that you're gonna do it. And that's.
Morgan Krueger [00:54:26]:
It's funny. It's like, it's just a little step for us, but it represents like, God, I trust you enough to move in your direction because I trust that you're going to redeem, you're going to take back this thing, whatever it is in our lives. And so I love that you touched on that because I do think we have a part to play. Ultimately it's going to be him, but we have this, like, trust fall a little bit.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:44]:
Yeah. So, Morgan, you wrote a book.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:48]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:48]:
And when did it come out?
Morgan Krueger [00:54:51]:
So my second book came out on April 7, so I don't know when this will air, but yes. So very.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:59]:
So this past week.
Morgan Krueger [00:55:00]:
Yes. Oh, my gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:01]:
Congratulations.
Morgan Krueger [00:55:02]:
Thank you. Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:04]:
Yes, Tell us about it.
Morgan Krueger [00:55:06]:
Yeah, it's so funny. I Feel like we just talk the entire time we talk, which I kind of love. It is so much about my first. First book. And so if. If someone out there is genuinely battling shame, I encourage y' all to go read that. It's a very short read. I hope it's a blessing.
Morgan Krueger [00:55:20]:
My second book, Made to Magnify, it's called Goodbye hiding, Hello freedom, Trading your shame for redemption in Jesus. So, so much what we talked about, which I love. I mean, that's so. It's such a part of my testimony. My second book that came out on the seventh is called Made to Magnify. Choosing to live for Jesus when everything tells you to live for yourself. And this was kind of a. You know, hopefully when you write something, you.
Morgan Krueger [00:55:44]:
You basically just write the book you really need. And so I wrote the book that I really needed. And I got to this point a couple years ago where I was just like, Lord, like, I feel like that. That child in Ephesians 4 that Paul is talking about, that's riding the wind of. Of. Of, you know, the. The highs and lows of the waves of just, like, doctrine or ideas or self, and that. That's such the cultural moment that we're living in.
Morgan Krueger [00:56:05]:
And. And so I just started to kind of get this idea of magnifying my head, and. Which stems from Mary's prayer in Luke 1, where she just declares when everything could have made her think about herself, right? Like, being pregnant with Jesus was almost a death sentence in that cultural. In that cultural moment. But instead, her eyes are so fixed on her Savior, on God, that she says, my soul magnifies the Lord. And my. My soul. My soul, like, basically, like, magnifies my Savior.
Morgan Krueger [00:56:35]:
And so with that, I was like, magnify. Like, what does that mean? And to simplify the best definition I found, it just means to make great. And I was like, wow, we are creatures who are made to magnify. But the catch is, we're gonna wake up every morning and we are going to magnify something. We're gonna make great something. It's either gonna be us, or it's gonna be Jesus. And so I just had this deep cry a couple years ago where I was like. Like, jesus, I want it to be you.
Morgan Krueger [00:57:00]:
Help me to rise above the winds being tossed to and fro of every idea of self, and let me rise above and make your name great. And he's taught me so much through it. And so it's kind of for anyone, like, needing language and needing just, like, encouragement from a friend of like, how do we rise above our cultural moment of self? And not just that it's out there. You know, the idea. It'd be so easy for me to be like, this is a cultural thing. We're at war with culture. We're really not. We're in a spiritual war.
Morgan Krueger [00:57:25]:
And there are things we need to be made aware of. But ultimately it's not just out here. It's in here. Like, the temptation to make it all about me is. Is like rooted deep in me every single morning. And so the book is. Is kind of. Again, I didn't find a formula as I.
Morgan Krueger [00:57:39]:
As I studied scripture and let the Lord change me, but I did find an invitation. It's an invitation to daily return to that table of surrender. And so that's. That's the invitation in the book and that's the invitation in the gospel.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:49]:
Right. I love it. That is such a timely book. I mean, I can't think of probably a better time in history for that book because our whole world right now is, what can I do to promote myself? Like, how do I get, you know, in the age of. Oh my gosh, yes. The age of, you know, Instagram, tick tock, being an influencer, doing these things, it's. And it can be out of good motives, but it's so self focused of like, how do I promote myself? How do I think about myself? And then that always leads us just feeling so empty at the end of the day. So I am very.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:22]:
Actually, I might read both of your books.
Morgan Krueger [00:58:24]:
Yeah, you guys are. I love your podcast. You guys are just like, hype girls. Like, but it's real.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:31]:
We wouldn't hype you if we were.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:32]:
This is not empty. Hype. This is fully not empty. So you have a. Y' all need
Morgan Krueger [00:58:36]:
to come to Franklin and hang out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:38]:
We will come to Franklin. We.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:39]:
We have lots of other Californians that have moved there, so.
Morgan Krueger [00:58:42]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:44]:
Half of them.
Morgan Krueger [00:58:44]:
Half of them are here.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:45]:
I promise this to you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:47]:
They can find you on Instagram. They can also, I'm sure, order your books on Amazon or wherever it is that they get books. Correct?
Morgan Krueger [00:58:55]:
Yes, yes, books are sold. My book is in store so online, everywhere, and then it's in store at Barnes and Noble. So if you have a local one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:05]:
Oh, my gosh. I. I actually need to go to Barnes Noble today. I might pick it up physically instead of doing my Kindle.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:10]:
Yeah, I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:12]:
I can put it on.
Morgan Krueger [00:59:12]:
Let me know if you do. It's so fun.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:14]:
I will, I will take a picture Morgan, I can't thank you enough for coming on this podcast. This is a topic of conversation. Even though that's funny that it's not even your second book, it's your first book. This is one of those conversations that we have not had with our listeners. And I feel in my spirit that this is resonating with a lot of people right now. Well, not this second, but when they hear this that are battling intense shame and don't see a way out or a way through. And I just feel really thankful. So thank you for.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:45]:
For ministering to us and to our community. And we just are very thankful for what you're doing.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan Krueger [00:59:50]:
Well, thank you all for having me. And like, yeah, this was, you know, podcasts, God uses every single one in different ways. But you guys are so real. And I really feel like, you know, yeah, you could teach people stuff all day long, but if they don't feel like you're their friend or they don't feel like they can connect with you, then it's kind of just more information. And I think in this day and age, we don't need more just information, but we need connection. And I think it's rare to have a podcast where I just have no doubt the listeners feel genuinely connected to you guys. And I think that is like the greatest ministry you could give the girls that you're reaching and your listeners. So just want to say thank you for Yalls ministry.
Morgan Krueger [01:00:30]:
Keep going. I'm your biggest fan now. I'm your hype girl. I can't wait to tell everybody. I mean, you guys are popping off, but I mean, my little corner of the world. I can't wait to tell everyone to keep listening to you guys.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:41]:
Oh, you're so sweet.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:42]:
Thanks, Morgan. Well, feeling is mutual.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:44]:
We are already obsessed with you.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:45]:
Yes. Come to California. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:49]:
And thanks for taking your time today too, on your Friday. We really appreciate it.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:53]:
Yep.
Morgan Krueger [01:00:54]:
Thanks, friends.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:54]:
Okay.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:55]:
Thanks for joining us.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:56]:
Yes, thanks for joining us. Pick up Morgan's books at Barnes and Noble or Amazon and we will see you guys next time.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:03]:
Bye. Bye.