Leslie Johnston [00:00:00]:
Welcome back, everybody.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:02]:
We're facing each other.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:03]:
I know. I feel like I. I'm trying to like, look. I always look at that camera but now I can't because we're facing each other.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:08]:
I know. But actually I've been excited to fate when we get into our new studio, we're going to be facing each other. Yeah. And I'm excited about that because I feel like we'll have to do this less like turning.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:18]:
Yeah, I know. It was like a constant turn.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:20]:
I know, but it's constant.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:22]:
How are you doing?
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:24]:
I'm pretty good. I just ate an acai bowl that was dark purple. Which makes me feel like when you guys are listening to this, your mouth looks like a brown purple.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:33]:
She wasn't drinking wine every day.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:34]:
I wasn't drinking wine before.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:35]:
She's eating an acai bowl.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:36]:
And just so you know, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, poor girl doesn't know that her mouth is purple. I know it's purple. That's the only thing I want you to know is if it's purple. I know it's purple.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:45]:
You're like, I don't care that my mouth is purple. I just care that other people know that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:47]:
I know, I know. So it's not embarrassing. That's me.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:51]:
That's why I switched to Pattaya. Because I didn't like that my mouth turned purple.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:56]:
I think that the pink, the pink stuff tastes better anyways.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:59]:
It's sweeter.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:00]:
It's sweeter. It tastes more like dessert. I thought about getting that today, but then I ordered and it was too late and too late. They're not super friendly so it's kind of just like an in n out situation. Don't ask problems and make sure that you pronounce pataya right. Cuz I used to say pataya and they'd be like, it's pattaya. And I'm like, why do you sound annoyed with me that I don't know how to say that word?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:22]:
You're like, no one even says acai right?
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:24]:
So. No, no. A kai is basically a kai. A sigh.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:28]:
Do you do any like edits to your bowls?
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:31]:
Yeah, I'll add like cacao nibs on top, which they were really dark today, so not that good. And then extra granola on top and bottom.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:41]:
That's the key. Granola on the bottom.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:43]:
Yes. Granola on the bottom is a hack. Because if you eat your bowl from the top to the bottom, which most people do, you're done with your Granola too fast. Yes, Granola on the bottom.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:54]:
To do the worst is having no toppings on your acai bowl.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:57]:
When you get straight acai. Oh, that's a smoothie.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:01]:
I love that acai place that we go to down in Palm Springs.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:05]:
That's the best acai place. And you hate this. But they have really good chia seed pudding there. You hate chia seeds.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:12]:
Chia seed pudding.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:13]:
Oh, I thought about you last night because we went to. For dinner, we went to the pizza place in Loomis. Pizzola.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:19]:
Pizzola.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:19]:
And I had the sausage one. And there are these massive fennel seeds just all on top of the pizza. Leslie hates chia seeds, and she hates fennel.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:28]:
Like, I think it's like an absorption fennel. Or is it the actual everything about it? It's like a poppy seed. The flavor just is, like, bursting. And a poppy seed has a flavor to you. Have you ever had an everything bagel? No, sorry. Have you ever had a bagel that sits in the tray next to an everything bagel? That is the worst thing. I used to get these cinnamon sug bagels from Noah's bagels.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:52]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:52]:
And they always put that dumb tray next to it. With the. With the poppy seed bagels or the everything bagel?
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:58]:
Yeah, I'm thinking poppy seeds.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:59]:
Right. That's on and everything.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:00]:
Yeah, they have poppy seeds and garlic and all that kind of.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:03]:
And it would just like always. Couple of poppy seeds on the cinnamon sugar. And it was.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:08]:
I hate that.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:09]:
The worst.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:09]:
It is the worst.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:10]:
The worst.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:11]:
That sucks.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:12]:
But I want to make some bagels soon. That actually sounds good. Like homemade bagels.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:17]:
You should. You should make homemade bagels and give them to me. I'll eat them. Hey.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:21]:
Well, now my oven works. My kitchen remodel. Have you made something?
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:25]:
What was your first thing you made in it?
Leslie Johnston [00:03:27]:
Well, it turned on last night.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:29]:
Oh, you haven't made anything yet.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:29]:
I made anything.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:30]:
Bagels could be your first thing.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:32]:
Bagels could be the top thing. But the microwave has this, like, convection capability, and it has all these, like, speed cook things where it cooks it like it's in an oven, but it's like, five minutes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:42]:
Leslie's house looks so good. And all these gadgets are very futuristic, and I feel like it's going to make. It's going to make your cooking, and you're baking. Go next level.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:51]:
Yeah. Everyone's laughing at me because I'm like, you guys, this cooks a baked potato in six minutes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:55]:
Yeah. But, hey, it does.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:57]:
Now, do I make baked Shows often. No, now you're going to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:01]:
Now you're gonna make a baked potato in six minutes.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:02]:
Yeah. Because I can cook filet mignon in there for like five in the microwave. Yeah, probably.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:07]:
It's gonna be terrible. That kind of grosses me out. But I will try it. If you do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:13]:
I'll do. I'll do a whole meal. You and some friends can come over. I'll do a whole meal of everything in my convection microwave.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:20]:
Everything has to be done.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:21]:
Everything has to be done in the microwave.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:22]:
Potatoes, filet mignon. It's all stuff that you probably shouldn't do in the microwave.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:25]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:26]:
And you do all of it in the microwave just to see.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:28]:
But what if it's amazing? And then now no one should ever be proven wrong.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:32]:
I think we'll be proven wrong. Yeah, I will be. What would you say is your favorite part of the house remodel, now that it's all kind of settling down, like your favorite thing that you put in?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:45]:
I have a pull out trash can now. It built into my island and it looks like a cabinet. And then you just pull it out and it's a trash can.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:52]:
It's so nice.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:53]:
It's so nice.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:54]:
The aesthetic of your kitchen with that.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:56]:
Honestly, the new cabinets in my island, I kept all the existing other cabinets but my island one. I love, like, putting my silverware away because it just, like, is beautiful. Oh, my gosh. It's so nice.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:08]:
So nice. And it's also well organized.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:11]:
Gamma cabinetry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:12]:
Gamma cabinetry.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:14]:
They're the best.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:15]:
You're coming off the heels of one of your biggest events of the year.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:18]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:19]:
Like one of the biggest things that you do. And I'm glad that we're talking about what we're talking about today because I have to encourage you, if you're listening to this and you listened last week, you know that we had Charles and Abby Metcalf on the podcast, which hopefully you love that episode because we bless you.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:34]:
This always happens to me. I think I'm in a sneeze and I don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:38]:
We love that episode. We know that you're gonna love that episode. If you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to that episode.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:43]:
So good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:44]:
It was kind like there's certain episodes where it has no dead space and every line is punchy. And that was them. They were so wise and there were so many cool things that they said. So go back and listen. But the reason they were here is because we do this massive thing around here called the Thrive Conference. And this podcast is a part of the Thrive Podcast Network, which you already know. But Leslie puts on this massive conference that serves church leaders and business leaders all over the world, and it all just wrapped up this past week. And you lead so well.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:18]:
It's such a feat to pull off all the things that you do. And I say this about you often, so I don't think this is surprising, but you have the ability to pull off this big, massive thing with so many moving parts, and you are not. You do not come across as stressed out or like a chicken with your head cut off at all. Even if you feel like that internally. You lead very gracefully in front of all these people, and you make for a very fearless leader to follow. And I have to imagine that's very exhausting to do all of that and also maintain composure the entire time.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:49]:
Well, thank you. I feel like when. When the team is so good putting it on, like, really, Joy is the one who kind of runs the show. She's the best. And she's like. She is. Honestly, she teaches me. I know how to be calm during an event.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:05]:
Like, I. And we'll talk about this in this episode, but I know how to be graceful in a season like that. But Joy has taught me how to be, like, actually, like, joyful during the stressful times.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:17]:
That's cool.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:18]:
I feel like I could keep my composure and, like, keep people happy and all of that while you're running something. But I think she has taught me how to be, like, how to actually love it in the midst of the craziness, which is awesome.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:30]:
Joy's on your team. Joy's on you. Doesn't know. And she does, like, conference logistics and stuff, right?
Leslie Johnston [00:07:35]:
Yeah, she does all the operations. Operations and all that stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:37]:
So that's cool.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:38]:
It's really nice when people are like, oh, my gosh, let's see. You did a great job. I'm like, no, no. You should be talking to the rest of the team because they're so good at what they do.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:45]:
But that has to come from a culture that would. That's set.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:49]:
You, like. You set that culture. I feel like you said the culture of, like, hey, this is gonna be busy. This can be hectic. But this is also gonna be really fun, and we're not gonna miss the moments of, like, joy and fun.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:58]:
Yeah. Well, I think there's. Thrive is so fun. I feel like what I thought about this year that I haven't thought about before is, you know, how Disneyland has their. We've, like, read These books on Disneyland. But their goal is to make people feel like when you're in Disneyland, you don't see anything else. You don't think about anything else. Like you are in a.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:18]:
In a whole different world. Like, you're in, like, the happiest place on earth and you don't think about the outside.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:23]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:23]:
Which is true. When you're at Disneyland, you really do feel that way. I felt like this year of Thrive. It felt like when you're at Thrive, you don't think about anything else. Like your whole world exists in thrive. It's so fun. It's crazy. It's, like, encouraging and, like, wild, but it's like nothing else exists outside of it, which I think is something we need to keep replicating.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:45]:
It did feel like that because I came back to my inbox at the beginning of this week and I was just like, oh, my gosh, I have a job besides this. Because it is. It's very immersive. It's a whole experience, and it's really fun. And this is. This is probably just a note for everybody in any business or career field that setting aside times in your calendar where you're able to go immerse yourself in something else, whether that's an educational thing, a spiritual growth thing, a developmental, you know, conference, or whatever, it's a really good habit to set aside because while I left last weekend feeling exhausted, I also, in a different way, left feeling more rejuvenated and excited for the future. Because you're right. It, like, transports you to a whole other space.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:31]:
You know, like, sometimes I don't know. I don't know if what we need is, like, rest in the sense of we need to sit on the couch and do nothing. I think sometimes you need to, like, totally change your environment and go be in a totally different setting where you're not thinking about any of your usual stuff. And that can be restful too, because you're resting all parts of your brain that you usually use and you're engaging different parts of your brain.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:52]:
Yeah. Which. This goes kind of to our self care episode a little bit. But it's like, am I physically tired or am I discouraged? Because sometimes the effects of both of those can feel the same. But you're not actually needing time by yourself or time. Sometimes you do. If you're, like, physically exhausted, you do need time to have your introvert time, but sometimes it's. I'm actually discouraged by a bunch of stuff, and so that's making me tired.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:17]:
It's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:18]:
So I actually need to do something that's encouraging, not just mindless.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:22]:
That's awesome.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:22]:
And Thrive is one of those things. Thrive's like our leadership conference that people of all types of leadership, like, whether you're in church ministry, business ministry or business, anything that where you feel like, hey, I've got a role that I'm leading. Whether you're like a stay at home mom and you're leading your house, like, there's pretty much everybody this Thrive conference is for.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:42]:
But yeah. And so we thought, coming off the heels of Thrive conference, since we got the chance to listen to so many different sessions and you got the chance to lead quite a bit because this is one of your biggest super bowl events of the year, we thought it would be cool to do like kind of a leadership episode and just go back and forth and talk leadership principles that we've learned and we've loved and that actually work. You know, like, you attend a conference or you listen to a, you know, a, a talk online and it feels like you hear a lot of good things. But there are certain things that you put into practice and you're like, ah, that doesn't actually work for me. There's leadership principles that just kind of sound good. And then there's leadership principles that actually work good. And so I think that would be cool today. Like, we're going to go back and forth, focus on what are some leadership principles or things that you've learned that actually work for you in practice.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:30]:
And we'll kind of put like a female leadership spin on that too, since that's the frame that we both. That's come from.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:37]:
What would you say is the number one thing that you're learning or practicing right now with leadership in your job or in your life? And it can be like in any, any setting. It doesn't need to be just like your job.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:51]:
There's a few. I mean, the first one that always comes to mind is a compliment I've been given that I didn't think about that much, but now I think about it all the time is they would be like, you're like a duck. And I'm like, expand labyrinth. Like, you're like a duck. It's like on the top of the water. What people see in a, in, in like a leadership space is like, you're cool, calm and collected.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:19]:
Like, it's graceful.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:20]:
It's whatever. You seem, you seem like, oh, everything's good, everything's fine. But then when I see under the surface of like, what's going on and what's being put on. You're like spinning your wheels like you're getting a bunch of stuff done. Like, you're not. You. You appear graceful. Some people appear graceful and it's because they're literally not doing anything.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:37]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:37]:
And there's some people, like, you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off because you're super busy and crazy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:44]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:44]:
I think there's a middle ground where it's like, if you are busy and you feel like a chicken with your head cut off, don't act like it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:52]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:53]:
And I think some people might go, well, that's not being genuine to how you're doing. Or I'm like, not talking about, like when I talk to my friends, like, Morgan knows I'll go to her when I'm like, I'm so mad at this situation. I'm whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:06]:
Or stressed or whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:07]:
Exactly. But then in settings where you're with other people, if you want to, like, increase your leadership or like the respect level people have for you, they don't want to work with someone who's problem dumping everything that they have to take on. Like, when you're a leader, you go, this is my responsibility. This isn't anybody else's thing to carry. So I can carry it and still operate in a space where people actually enjoy being with me. Because I realized in the past when I've seen leaders act kind of crazy and they flip out at people or they just. Every time you see them, they're always like, like a big sigh. And they're just talk about how stressed they are.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:48]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:49]:
People do not want to spend time with those people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:51]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:51]:
They actually don't want to help them. They may help you for a second because they feel bad for you, but they don't want to. They don't want to rally behind you because they don't want to be like that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:59]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:00]:
You. It's like, if you make the job not look fun and, and make it feel stressful, other people are not going to want to help you. So it's a strategy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:08]:
Great point.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:08]:
It's a strategy because you're like, I'm going to be cool, calm and collected. People will then want to be a part of this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:15]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:15]:
Because you're representing your thing you're doing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:18]:
Yes. So we tend to go like, oh, sigh. There's so much on my plate. And we think that what that does is it gains us credibility from the organization. Oh, good. They think I'm working hard. They know that my plate's Full.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:31]:
Actually, what it does is it makes people think that you can't handle a lot of things. So they, like you said, they don't want to be on the same team as you because they don't want to be taxed. Or. Or the second part is that they don't want to give you things in the future. Right. Because they don't think that you can handle it. I think that's really good. That's a mistake that we fall into.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:47]:
You want everyone to think that you're busy, and you want everyone to know that you're carrying a lot, so you lean negative in that way when what you should be doing is leaning positive so that people can jump on your team and be excited to help you. Yeah, that's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:01]:
That's a whole other thing. Like the positivity.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:03]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:03]:
Not false positivity, because people don't want to follow a leader that they don't trust. But I think if you. If your angle is always negative when you work with people, they're not going to want to be around you. They're not going to want. And they don't want to become like that. So there's a whole. That's a whole leadership point in itself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:20]:
Yeah. Well, I kind of watched you do it today, too. We did, like, a big feedback session. Because when you have an event that large and it goes so well, like, everybody would say that the event in and of itself was a 10 out of 10. But then you also know from any, like, large organization, if you do something massive like that, there's always things you can improve and change or else we wouldn't be able to change things. Right. And I loved the way that you led that meeting, too, where you're like, hey, just so everybody knows, we're about to enter into a feedback session, and the point of this is to get better because we're a team and that's what we do. So there's no hurt feelings if there were things that didn't go well that we need to adjust.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:57]:
And what I liked about that is it's the acknowledgement of, like, hey, I'm not so positive poly, that I think everything's awesome all the time. And you can't trust that I'm a real person like you acknowledging, hey, not everything about this is perfect because nothing's ever going to be perfect. Perfect.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:12]:
That you're right. It gains you trustworthiness. And people are like, oh, I could be on Leslie's team. Because she knows how to acknowledge when things are hard. Yes, but yet she doesn't live in the hard. That's what people want. They want that, like, sweet spot right there where you can admit that something sucks because your team does not want toxic positivity.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:29]:
No, no.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:30]:
Because when things suck, they want it to be acknowledged that it sucks.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:33]:
Yeah. And your boss may want you to admit when something sucks.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:36]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:37]:
If they go, hey, this thing sucks, and you get defensive in a positive way of like, well, it doesn't matter, it's fine, whatever, then they're not going to respect you in that way too. So there is. Yeah, there is the balance, for sure.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:48]:
That's great. I really like that.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:49]:
What about you? You have been in a leadership role for a long time, but you're leading a whole ministry. You're leading men and women and leading a growing ministry of adults. What. What is, like, something that comes to your mind?
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:05]:
Well, one thing I feel like your dad said right when I got here, not just to me, but to everybody, and I've carried it with me and it works. And it's true that people help support what they help create.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:17]:
So if that's true, that means anything you want to create, that you want to have momentum, this can be like a project, a rollout of a new product in your business. This can be a new cohort that you're launching. This could be like, if you think about it, for the stay at home mom, this could be like, you know, a new chore list around the house that you're implementing. It could be anything. Right. In my context, I lead a young adults ministry. I lead two young adult ministries, and one of which I took over from somebody who had been in that same young adults ministry for a long time, which is always a hard transition because there's established culture, an established person, there's already an established community. So change is just hard in that regard.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:01]:
And that was one of the things that your dad said from the get go of me even working here, is if people help support what they help create, which means the way to momentum is to get people in the room who have their hands on things and they feel like they're creators. Now. I think that that has layers to it. Like, some people, their voice in the room helps them feel like their creator. Some people, their hands on things, like actually working something makes them feel like they're a creator. I think that's been a big leadership principle with like 1825, which is our young adults ministry. We have a massive volunteer base, almost like as big as the ministry itself. And the goal would be.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:45]:
Let's keep creating more and more volunteer positions to where anybody who's in the ministry also serves in the ministry. Because people are more prone to show up for something where they have a responsibility to fulfill and people need them for something.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:59]:
That's so smart.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:59]:
So that's been a leadership principle that I feel like actually works. If you can figure out a way to get people around your table, let them speak into what you're doing, and then if you can find the right people that you can actually hand some things off to, then people are with you for life. And the best part about that is that they're also not as complainy as they were before because they're a part of the creation process.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:24]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:24]:
So they're more protective rather than critical of something. If you're creating consumers, then they're always going to be critical because they're just consuming. They have no skin in the game. So if something sucks, then they're like, yeah, that sucks. And I'm going to talk a bunch about it and tell all my friends, if they're actually an owner, then they have like a share. They're a stakeholder, and it changes the way they communicate about it and it changes the time they want to invest in it.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:50]:
That's been, I think, a huge victory for 1825. And why I feel like it's growing is that so many young adults feel like they have a part to play in it. Like it's their ministry and they help create it. I love that, what that can do. And I think this is just the leadership trade off you have to make. Sometimes that can come at the cost of quality, especially if you don't always have the time to sit with people and train them to do something the exact way that you would do it. Or maybe you do have the time to sit with them and train them the exact way that you would do it. But they're still learning, you know, like part of that handoff of ownership means that you're surrendering something to somebody else.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:31]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:32]:
To let them try it. And sometimes it's not as good. So I think it's like you measure your organization and you decide what are the things that need to be handled by an expert and what are the things that can be handled by people who are not experts and give as many of those things as you can away. Gather your core. Gather them often. Because if people think that they're an owner, then it changes their love for and their commitment to the thing that you're building.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:58]:
That's Good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:58]:
And they'll last for a very long time.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:00]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:01]:
Which. And again, that's not my principle. That's something that somebody else said that I was like, I'm gonna try it because it seems like it works. And it does work. That's a tried and true thing. And I think, like, to scale that, you know, that's, that's a. In a business setting, that's making sure that your team feels like they're not just being delegated things, but they're actually a part of creating the to do list. That way when you're delegating a list things, the question is not, you know, or it's not a demand of like, hey, you're going to do this, this thing on the task list.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:31]:
It's more of a question of, hey, who wants this? And the person who probably wants it is maybe the person that put it on the list to begin with. Right. So I think it's that team buy in. Let's say that you're a mom and you're at home and you're trying to create like a new. A new chore list to implement in your household or new things for your kids to do if they got to be a part of the brainstorming process. Like if they got to add, oh, somebody needs to put dishes away up on the board. They might be more prone to be the ones to put dishes away totally. Because they're the ones that added it to the board.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:01]:
Like, it's a simple thing, but we tend to think that in order to execute leadership, well, we have to white knuckle it to ourselves because we're the best ones to do it.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:10]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:11]:
And then who was. Who said this? John Maxwell said this. He says, I'm gonna butcher it. He said this at Thrive. He said, you might be able to do it better by yourself, but you cannot do it longer by yourself.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:25]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:26]:
And that was like a mic drop moment, because that's true. You can do it better if you were to take it by yourself, but you will not outlast yourself. You will come to an end. Who's gonna do it after you, and would it be worth it to help them do it alongside you?
Leslie Johnston [00:22:42]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:43]:
That's been one that's really worked. Like, really worked. What do you think about this? Okay, so of, of all the speakers that I got to see when we were, when we were at Thrive, it's crazy to me how people have such great influence. You know, like, they each had their own. We got. We've gotten to see some really awesome speakers. We've gotten to have amazing speakers in this podcast. Like.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:05]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:05]:
And leaders. Right. Like, John Maxwell is a major leader in the business world and we got the chance to hear from him. Charles and Abby were on this podcast. They hold so much wisdom and all these people, one of their common threads is their leading people. And one of the things I noticed about them. Cuz my, my question always becomes like, well, how did they get all this influence? All of these people seem to really know who they are.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:31]:
Like, all these people seem like they would still be doing all these things if nobody knew what they were doing. What do you feel like the identity role has in like an influence? Like, what's the cause and effect of identity and influence?
Leslie Johnston [00:23:47]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:48]:
Knowing who you are, that determines your influence. Or have you seen people where you're like, they actually don't know who they are and therefore their influence comes across as insecurity?
Leslie Johnston [00:23:58]:
Yes. Yeah. You know, that is a really interesting question. I feel like people who have a lot of influence, that everybody really looks up to them. They have figured out confidence mixed with humility. Yeah. Like, and because anybody that we know who is really influential, our first thing we say about them is like, oh, they're so insecure.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:23]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:23]:
They all have developed this confidence.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:25]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:26]:
About what they're doing. And, and like almost a, like a godly confidence.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:31]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:32]:
I know that sounds so cheesy, but it's, it's true. It's like we sat with Charles and Abby and their story was filled with them doing what they, what the world would probably think was a bad career move or a bad relational move or whatever that would be. But they felt like God was telling them to do it, so they trusted him. Which takes humility to be like, hey, God might know better than I know. And then also I'm confident enough in God and in myself to walk forward in this and trust that he's got me. But it's not. Their stories aren't perfect. Like, you watch as there's been a lot of like, heartache and issues and things that have come up in the road.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:17]:
But what they do have, and you sit with them is you're like, oh, they're confident. Like, they're confident in God. They're confident not just in themselves, but in what they're doing and like, the value of it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:26]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:27]:
Like they're so bought in. And they're also really hard workers. Like John Maxwell. We, we talked about that a lot where it was like, sometimes like hard work is what gets you in the Room. It gets you to the next thing. Now, there's a million other reasons why you would get into those rooms, but yeah, I feel like the confidence thing is what sticks out to me. I think what stuck out to you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:48]:
Well, I think what you just said is huge. It's the confidence mixed with the humility. Because you see leaders that are just confident and nobody wants them back. You never want them back.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:58]:
Then you see leaders that are. I wouldn't even call it humility. They're so like self deprecating, low on themselves. And I think they use it as a strategy to try to get people to build them back up. And you don't trust them either because they're not confident. Why would you want to follow them?
Leslie Johnston [00:26:16]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:16]:
So there's that really cool balance of confidence and humility that ultimately the greatest model of that is Jesus is what he did. Right. He. He knew he was God. He knew that in himself was the, the fullness of everything. Right. All anybody on planet earth needed was in him, is in him. He knew that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:35]:
He never questioned it, he never denied it. And yet the way that he lived was with a towel over his arm, on his knees, washing people's feet, talking with people, healing people. Very humble lifestyle in comparison with the king that he was. And he knew he was. So that to me is the example which I think, I think that you saying the confidence mixed with the humility, it's not only a Jesus trait, but I think it is the best recipe for leadership. Because people want to follow you when they know you know where you're going, but they also want to know that you don't think you're the answer to where they're going.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:12]:
Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:13]:
Like they want, they want you to be you to be based on something bigger and deeper than yourself. And I think that was one of the themes that I saw across every speaker that I heard at our conference and a lot of the speakers that I look up to outside of our conference is that it always feels like their identity is rooted in something so much deeper than just themselves.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:33]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:33]:
So the, well they have to draw on of leadership always feels like it goes beyond them. Like you're looking at the tip of the iceberg. Right. Like all you can see in their message or in their talk, you can see just like a little glimpse, glimpse of all the knowledge they have. But underneath the tip of the iceberg is so much more that if you just got 20 more minutes with them, you could access so much more. And so I see a lot of, I think That's a great leadership principle to implement in life, is like, if you want influence. That's a. Actually why this is first the question.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:08]:
Right. And I'm saying that to myself too, because I think all of us, especially on the west coast, we tend to want in.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:16]:
Like, our.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:16]:
Our area is known for wanting influence.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:20]:
And I actually don't think it's a bad desire in and of itself. But if. If that's sort of the question of, like, how do I gain influence? How do I gain more influence? I think the question is not, like, how do I gain influence? How do I get more rooted in my identity.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:35]:
Knowing who I am, because my influence is always going to flow from that place.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:39]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:40]:
Charles and Abby, that episode was so good because they know who they are and they live in such a way where they really follow Jesus.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:48]:
And every story and, like, little nugget of wisdom they shared was just an overflow of that.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:53]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:54]:
It wasn't them trying to be influential. It was them having a firmly rooted identity. And then as a result, they're very influential.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:01]:
Yes. I really think. I was thinking about that while you were talking. I was like, I think that there's people who are doing exactly what God has for them, and they're reaching maybe 10 people. And then there's people who are doing exactly what God has them do, and they're reaching a hundred thousand people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:18]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:18]:
I think it's like, we equate the amount of influence we have to how effective we are.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:26]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:26]:
But that if you read anywhere in the Bible, it's like, that's not always the case. Like, you can be effective with 12 people and God's like, well done. That's like your personality, your exact makeup, like, is set for that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:42]:
So good.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:42]:
And again, I don't think it's a wrong thing to want influence, especially if you want to influence in a good, positive way. If you're like, hey, I want people to know Jesus and the impact that he's had in my life, I think, yes. Like, go out and try to do that if that's your heart. But if in your heart of hearts, there's that nudge of like, I think this is because it's filling a need, filling a. A piece of me that's insecure, that if other people have approval over me, I think that's just. That's when you get to the point, like, if. If comments and things destroy you, when you have some bit of influence, I think your influence is set wrong. Like, I think your or your Motivations.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:23]:
Are wrong or influence is all you're going after. Exactly like that. That's when you know, oh, this is just about influence to me. Because then the lack of approval from people will sink you.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:32]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:33]:
Versus is. This is about something greater than that, than what people say to you. It will affect you, but we'll sink you.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:41]:
It's funny, I. A couple years ago I was like, man, it would be awesome to get free clothes from Tick Tock. And I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I talked to my sister brother in law because they do a bunch of like creative stuff. And I was like, what if I just like start my own TikTok and I post like outfit videos, skin care, whatever. And I was like, because I could make some extra money doing this. This would be awesome.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:04]:
And get some clothes.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:05]:
Yeah. My motivations were not bad. They were just like, hey, I'd love to get some free stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:09]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:09]:
So I started doing it. The first comment I got that was like, those shoes are ugly or something. I was like, devastated. I'm like, I can't. I can't do this anymore. Like, this is such a terrible. And it was like one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:21]:
Like.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:21]:
Not that she probably was right, like there was ugly, ugly. But it just destroyed me. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. But what's funny is when we started this podcast, I think because our hope for it was just that, like, whatever, God, like I'm just gonna. I'm gonna say what I feel like God maybe wants to use me in and if he can use me in it, awesome. We got hate comments all the time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:45]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:46]:
It has never, like, there's somewhere you're like, oh, yeah, that was unnecessary or whatever. But it has never taken me down. I don't know if that's God's protection.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:54]:
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:56]:
We get any negative people come after our physical appearance.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:58]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:59]:
They come after. And we don't even have that big of a following. But it's like, yes, little things. They. It does not matter to me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:04]:
No, no.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:05]:
And I was like, okay, good. I feel like I'm kind of on the right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:08]:
That's track then. Great point.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:09]:
Because I'm like, at the end of the day, especially people who aren't Christians, they'll really hate on our podcast. And I'm like, why would I care though?
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:17]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:17]:
Like if. Of course they're gonna disagree with what I'm saying or even if it's a Christian who doesn't like what we're saying. I'm like, hey, I know I'm trying my best here. And I'm just doing what I feel like God has put in my heart to say. So if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But it's not. It doesn't devastate me if people don't like it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:33]:
That's actually such a good point. And I feel the same way about it, I think, because a. The comments are usually really unnecessary and weird. Like, there was someone who. We were like a real you and me talking about God, and someone was like you to look gross. And it's like, okay, awesome. Thank you.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:48]:
I think.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:48]:
I appreciate.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:50]:
Thank you so much.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:50]:
You did you pinned. You're like, oh, thank you so much. Oh, you're so sweet. Thanks so much.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:54]:
It's like a dad and his daughter in his profile photo. I'm like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:59]:
No, seriously. And I remember I've remembered seeing things like that. I actually don't look very often. When I do, it doesn't bother me either. And I think it's because no part of this is you and me selling. You and me.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:13]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:14]:
Like, it's actually not about being likable now. Leadership is actually a lot about being likable. We actually just released our Thrive Podcast network also has a publishing arm. We just released a new book called Likable Leader by Jason Young. And I think its name is. His name is Jonathan Malm. Yeah, I'll have to double check that. That would be a really good book to download or to buy because it's about being a leader who people want to follow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:39]:
Right. Like nobody wants to follow a tyrant. There's a way to be a likable. But on the flip side to that, leadership is actually not always about being likable. And I think that that's a huge part of what has guarded my heart in doing this podcast that has been more public facing. You're going to get a lot of feedback from people because that's what it means to do public facing ministry.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:04]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:04]:
But the fact that what we do is actually not for the sake of being liked is really helpful for me. Because people don't like it. That's actually fine. That wasn't the goal of this. The goal wasn't to be liked. The goal was to minister Jesus and then create open spaces for people to have honest dialogue about.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:22]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:23]:
Insecurity and all other kinds of life things. If. If someone dropped a comment that was like, hey, this is a really bad podcast for sharing Jesus and for creating honest spaces for women to grow if someone said that, I might look at the body, like, yes, that sucks, because that's literally what we're trying to do. And so I think that if you're in a leadership position where you feel like you're not liked personally for what you're doing, two things, and this is kind of nuanced, so hang with me. You should figure out how to be liked by your team, because your team spends time with you. They want to follow you. But if you're in this space where, like, you're more public facing and you feel like you're getting a lot of hate for things that are actually not bad things, they're just true things.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:12]:
That might be a part of leadership. Like, I'm reading. I'm teaching tonight for young adults. In Exodus, it's when Moses is up on Mount Sinai and he's getting instructions from God for the Ten Commandments and also how to construct the tabernacle and how to execute worship services. He's up there for 40 days and 40 nights. So he was up there for a long time. The rest of the Israelites are down at camp and they're just waiting for him to come back down. And it says they got so tired of him waiting that they asked Aaron, his brother, to fashion for them a golden calf so they could have someone to follow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:49]:
And this is the whole story of the golden calf. They start worshiping a false God because they didn't want to wait for what God actually said to come down. And Aaron, who's not even the main leader, he was only put there because Moses was like, I'm not a good communicator. Give me somebody else to do it with me. And God gave him Aaron. But Aaron listens to these people and he's like, all right, you guys want a calf? I'll give you a calf. Why? Because it's mob mentality.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:16]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:16]:
He wanted people to be happy with him.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:18]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:19]:
And he wanted to please the mob. So he made the thing that was actually really bad for them, and then they all suffer the consequences for it. And I think that's a leadership lesson in and of itself of, like, your goal is not to be liked.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:32]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:32]:
If your goal is to be liked now, again, you should be a likable leader as a byproduct of good leadership. But if your number one goal is to be liked, that will take you into so many different leadership decisions that are not only bad for you, but are bad for other people.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:48]:
So true. And that. That goes along with if there's. And this is the thing I see a lot, and a lot of times we all struggle with this is sometimes being a leader. It can be lonely. So then you want to be likable. And so then the things that maybe your team does or people start to gossip about certain other people or whatever, and then you jump on that bandwagon because you want to be liked, that can lead you down not great paths, too.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:16]:
100 takes you off course just because.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:18]:
You want to be liked. But you're right. Be a likable leader, but don't sacrifice your convictions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:24]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:24]:
In the sake. For the sake of being a likable leader.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:27]:
The goal of leadership should not be being like. The goal of leadership should be leading towards a goal.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:32]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:32]:
And then likability is like a side quest to that.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:37]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:37]:
It can't be the main thing.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:38]:
Yeah. It's the tool that gets. Gets people to the place you want to go. I think along those lines too. What I was thinking about a leadership lesson is using your discernment.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:49]:
Well, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:50]:
And I think a lot of times we don't trust ourselves and we don't trust, like, I mean, the Bible. This verse always pops into my head, but it's like God will, like, ask God for wisdom and he'll give it to you without finding fault. And I think we don't ask God for enough wisdom. And then on the flip side, we also don't. When we do ask God for wisdom, we don't trust, like, our gut. We don't trust our discernment with what he said. With what he said. And I don't think that's just your personal life.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:18]:
I think that can be your work life.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:20]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:20]:
There's certain things sometimes where you're like, ooh, I have a gut feeling about this. And I don't know if I should trust it or not. I think leaning into your discernment, like, if you have. If you're spending time with God, you feel like you are. You have access to Him. Your prayer life is great. All those things, if they're all lining up and you're in a workspace where you're making decisions. I found myself a lot, especially when I as I've been, like, kind of growing in my leadership.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:48]:
I felt like for a while, I moved into a role where I was working with people that were a lot older than me, and I felt like, oh, I shouldn't say anything because they're a lot older and wiser than I am.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:58]:
Yeah, it's like the seniority complex.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:00]:
Seniority.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:00]:
Been to Them.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:01]:
Exactly. Exactly. And then. But there were things that I was like. And it wasn't all the time. I'm honestly not that opinionated. But there were certain things where I was like, oh, I actually have a thought on this. Or like, I have a gut feeling about this.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:13]:
And I wouldn't say anything. And then someone later in the meeting would say it. That exact thought. And everyone's like, such a good idea.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:19]:
Yes. And I was like, dang it. Oh, my gosh.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:23]:
So I think sometimes we need to lean into that discernment. Like, God didn't put you in a role just so you could get paid 40 hours a week to live.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:32]:
Like, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:32]:
God puts you in your position where no matter what you're doing for a purpose. And if you're a Christian and you're trying your best, whether you're in ministry or business or any sort of trade, it's like, God put you there for a reason. Like, trust your gut. Trust like the Holy Spirit inside of you. You might be wrong sometimes, but as Annie F. Down says, she's like, just try it. And God will at least commend you for trying.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:56]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:57]:
To listen to that. So I don't know. Discernment, I think, is a big thing that I've recently been trying to learn and lean into.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:04]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:04]:
Of going like, you know what? I think, God, maybe now I'm not always gonna be right. So being willing to be like, hey, I'm putting this out there. This is a thought I have. It could totally be wrong, but at least I'm putting it out there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:16]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:17]:
You know?
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:17]:
Yep. A hundred percent. So this reminds me, and I'm sure everybody has an equivalent of this kind of room. I'm trying to think of what the equivalent would be for maybe like a stay at home mom or something. I don't. Maybe. Maybe they'll make this comparison. But we have a meeting that we conduct weekly that is very.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:35]:
Feedback people sharing based. Like, that's. That is the purpose of the meeting. It's a sermon and prep room. And so it's taking a passage we're about to preach in two weeks. And everybody gets the chance to evaluate and make comments. It's a really fascinating meeting because the age ranges is really wide. Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:54]:
Like oldest person in the room depending on the week. Maybe like 70s, youngest person in the room depending on the week. 18 years old. Right. Which is a huge diverse age range. Then you've got all different kinds of positions that are present in the room. It's like one of the most cross Pollinating of department meetings that we have, other than, like, our staff meeting.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:16]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:16]:
And it's still a very focused meeting, and anybody's welcome to come to it, even if you're not a Bible teacher or, like a regular part of our teaching team. And it's such an interesting meeting to be a part of, because when I first got to it, I was very much the same way as you were. It's like, I'm the youngest person in the room. I'm the least experienced person in the room. C.J. was on, and he talked about the highest paid person in the room. I think he talked about that with us in our podcast. But it's like the idea that the highest paid person in the room is who everybody defers to, to speak and give direction and feedback, and then everybody else kind of just goes along with what they say.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:54]:
Like, that's just the rule of that. That. That model. Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:57]:
We have great leaders that tend to always, you know, like, deny that and open up spaces for other people to still share what they think, which is really cool. But all that to say, there have been so many times where I'm like, okay, I think I should say something, because I think this would add value. I didn't do it. Somebody else said something the exact same or similar, and it was like, oh, that was awesome. You learned from those moments. But. But there is a leadership principle that I've learned from watching that room that I think is good for everybody. It's the idea of speaking up, but speaking up strategically.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:29]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:30]:
So there is so much value in your voice. The value in your voice needs to be measured, and it needs to be measured strategically for the room that you're in. Right. So there's like, the idea of you have to build up your confidence as a leader, but you also have to build up your competence as a leader, because you know confidence is only going to last you. Like, you can act like you know what you're doing, and you can act like you know how to do this one particular skill or execute this one event or this project, but if you're not competent enough to complete it, then you're going to be screwed in the end.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:01]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:02]:
So you need to build up confidence, but you also have to build up competence. Both of those things have to go together, but then with those two, like, let's say that you are competent, you're studied, you have the information, you've done the research, you've done the data, you're ready to present and get after it in this meeting. It actually might not not be the best thing for the room for you to have your mouth open the entire time, even though you know all of the answers and you've done all of the work.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:28]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:29]:
Because at the end of the day with your speech, and this is like a law of speech, I think, just for all of the different kinds of rooms and meetings that we're in, you are around people who have adhd.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:40]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:41]:
Or who are excellent communicators. Or because of a default setting in their brain, their brain turns off after you talking for 15 seconds.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:49]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:50]:
So if you have 15 seconds to communicate something, there's two questions you have to be asking. How am I going to communicate the thing I'm going to communicate? And two is what I'm communicating worthy of taking time out of this large room to communicate it.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:04]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:05]:
If you speak strategically in your meetings, it makes people want to hear from you over and over again. If you don't speak strategically in your meetings or in your leadership, it causes people to turn their ears off towards you. And so I think along with the discernment part, it's like. Like, it's discernment in decision making, but it's also discernment in how do I use my voice. There's an element of using your voice and speaking up in all parts of our lives.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:30]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:31]:
And in our jobs, we often think that speaking more is the secret to great leadership. I need to step up, grab the microphone, direct these people. The more time I'm on the mic, or let's say it's in your. In your conference room, the more times I'm at the head of the table, maybe it's in your family room. The more times that I'm leading this family devo time, the more times I'm. I'm. I'm. We think that's the solution to good leadership.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:56]:
I need to grab it by the reins. That's actually not. There's a lot of leadership that is displayed in silence and in taking a step back and letting somebody else speak and choosing not to speak. But we don't. We don't go there. We don't do that very much.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:12]:
You do a really good job at that. I feel like I watch you in meetings, and anything you say, you're like, I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm not mumbling. Like, there was someone that we knew who was like, oh, every single staff meeting, I get up and I say something because I want my voice to be known. And I'm like, if you don't have to say anything. Sit down. Like, stop talking.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:31]:
Don't add.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:32]:
Don't add. But if you're like, no, I have. Like, I've discerned this and I should say this, then say it, because God's probably going, all right, he didn't say it. All right. You overhear all of you say it. Yeah. And it's like, there's time to speak up. There's time to not.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:47]:
And that can be just as powerful.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:48]:
Yeah, there's. There's also an art form, too, especially if you're somebody who reports to other people to figuring out what do the people in the room care the most about? Like, it's the CJ Thing that he talked about. What keeps them up at night when they're trying to go to bed. If you can speak to those problems, then you're automatically recognized as somebody who adds value to the room. There's other feedback and other things you could say that would add value to the product or the project, but those things just might not be what the leaders think is important. So those are things that should be said, but maybe they should be said in a different venue. Right. Like measure.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:26]:
What are the things that need to be said in this venue? And then what are the things that need to be said in different venues? I think our mouth gets us into so much leadership trouble. Trouble. Like, it sends us down pegs versus bringing us up pegs.
Leslie Johnston [00:46:40]:
That's really good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:41]:
I don't know. I don't think that. I don't think you learn that beyond practicing it, though. So part of that is, like, taking a risk and saying something.
Leslie Johnston [00:46:49]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:50]:
What other ones do you have?
Leslie Johnston [00:46:51]:
I think another thought that I've had again recently has been not letting my emotions dictate, like, the path that I'm on. Let me explain a little bit. So I feel like, very candidly, the last couple months before thrive hit, I was like, what am I doing? Like, why am I in this job? Why am I like this? I wasn't. I was trying to get out of the event space, and now I'm in the event space again, and even at a bigger level than I was before. And I felt like I literally told someone, I feel like I've pigeonholed myself into this event. Like, I feel like this wasn't even the direction I was going.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:31]:
And.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:32]:
And so in my mind, I was like, man, I took a wrong turn somewhere. Like, I. I'm caught in events. I was trying to get out of events. But now I'm back here again, and I Was in a spot where I just was like, man, like, my emotions got the best of me. The stress of the event coming up, all of that was like, I. This is not. This is not what God has for me.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:52]:
And somehow I took a wrong turn.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:54]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:55]:
So I was tired. I was. I wasn't making decisions. Cause obviously I wasn't changing my job at all. But I just felt like, oh, man, I've. I've done something wrong. Letting my emotions get the best of me. Now I got to thrive.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:09]:
And then we did all of Thrive. It was so much fun. Even after thrive, I'm like, oh, I'm so excited for next year. I can't wait to get started on this. And I was like, this is so funny. One month ago, I was like, down in the dumps. Like, this job sucks.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:23]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:24]:
Like, I love my team. I love everybody. But I was like, man, I was like, my emotions just. I don't think. I think sometimes we have to trust God's timing and where God has placed you in your job.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:35]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:36]:
Even if you don't quite see it yet.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:38]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:38]:
Now, what I'm not talking about is the person who's like, I'm totally in the wrong job. I should switch over to something else. But, like, I think sometimes we can switch to a job, and when things get difficult, we want to quit.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:50]:
And we want something different or we want something new. And I think sometimes we have to stick it out and go, okay, I'm actually not gonna quit this thing because maybe God has something on the other side of this. And that's how I feel now. I'm like, oh, so good. I'm glad I didn't do anything or quit. You know, I was never gonna quit, but I feel like. I think sometimes we trust ourselves and we trust our emotions too much. Especially.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:20]:
I hate to say this, but especially as women, sometimes we can let our emotions get the best of us. And I think for me, at least. Well, maybe it's just me, but for me, I can be like, at one week, I'm like, this is the best job ever. I love this. And next week, I'm like, this is horrible. I should quit, start my own business, Whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:37]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:38]:
And so I feel like we don't. We shouldn't get tossed. If you're gonna want to be a good leader, don't ride the wave of your emotions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:44]:
Great.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:45]:
And go with it. You gotta go. This is what I'm doing right now. It may suck, but I know that in the future, God has me here for a Reason.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:53]:
So good.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:53]:
And he actually does have the power to change your emotions on something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:57]:
I love it.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:57]:
And so I don't know. That's what I'm learning right now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:00]:
I think that is massive. Because the hard part about this is your emotions are very real, and emotions can be very big. So the hard part is what you're feeling is legit. If you're feeling like you're in a space of hopelessness with your job, it probably feels like hopelessness. Right. If you're feeling exhausted, that can be really overwhelming. So the hard part is you will go through very real emotions and feelings that could very much lead you to walk into your boss's office and be like, this is my two weeks. I am done with this.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:31]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:32]:
That's the hard part. It's not even like you can dull them down. Sometimes emotions are too big for you to ignore.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:39]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:39]:
But I think what you're saying is really important. Good leaders know the reality of seasons, and the reality of seasons is that they start and they finish. Right. No season lasts forever. And so you saying, like, it's not good leadership to ride the waves of your emotions and let that dictate you. Okay. No, it's like good leadership is the buoys that sit out in the middle of the ocean are anchored to the ground. They don't move.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:06]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:06]:
Depending on what kind of weather it is. Right. Like, and it's anchored even when it's storming and crazy and the waves are thrashing, and it's anchored when it's very still. And that's. That's leadership. Knowing that not everything lasts forever. I think emotions tend to become our leaders when we think whatever we're feeling is our new default setting.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:26]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:27]:
That's a weird fear that we have. And both of us have talked about this. The. The thought that what I'm feeling, the bad thing that I'm feeling could be my forever.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:35]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:35]:
That causes us to do dumb things. Things.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:38]:
Because we think, okay, if this is going to be forever, I can't handle this for a long time. I gotta find the eject button quickly.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:45]:
But that's not how it actually works. If you live long enough, you realize, oh, this doesn't last forever.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:51]:
I'm gonna feel like I hate my job for two weeks, and then after that, I'm gonna see silver lining in this. That's going to make me really excited for my job.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:58]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:59]:
But we don't wait long enough. So I think that's really important. Your emotions can't be the Driver.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:03]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:04]:
In your life for leaders, you have to be someone who's able to weather storms and seasons. Like everything starts, everything ends. That's the way of, that's the rhythms of the world.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:14]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:15]:
It's why God set it up this way.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:16]:
Yeah. And there's power. There's power in staying. Like, we just celebrated 30 years at Bayside and 20 years of thrive. Like this last thrive was the 20th anniversary. And what's so cool is a lot of the team members are the ones that were back at the first year. Like they've done thrive for 20 years. Like my dad being one of them.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:37]:
And I just watch as I'm like, man, I see so many people jumping from job to job, from church to church, from business to business, and they never grow roots anywhere.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:49]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:49]:
And I'm just like, it just reminded me like the power of like not only the influence but the amount of things that can grow when you choose to like actually put your roots in somewhere and being willing to let God do a really like long term work.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:08]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:08]:
And the joys of that, like obviously, I mean it's like anywhere. And everyone always thinks the grass is greener on the other side. I love the phrase where it's like the grass is just grassier on the other side. Like all, every place has its own problems. So like if you think you can move to a different place or a different job and think that it's going to fix everything.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:26]:
Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:26]:
It's not going to. Because you're the same person that's going to go to the job.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:30]:
It makes you more trustworthy to be a good stayer.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:33]:
Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:34]:
I think my, my dad and our dads, I would say both of it because they're in the same generation. That was the quality that people were looking for. Right. Like when he would, when my dad would make hires in the business world, he would look at time spent in each previous this place of employment. Because that quality indicates commitment, the ability to grow something, to put down roots, to stay somewhere. That's like a trustworthy quality.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:58]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:58]:
Now that's not to say like, if God, you know, prompts you to up and go somewhere for the sake of the gospel, life's too short. Do it. But if you do find yourself where you're like, oh man, like I have moved around quite a bit and I've taken on a lot of different jobs in a very short amount of time. It could be a good litmus test question to ask myself. Am I being like thrown about by the ups and downs of Life. Or am I somebody who is being anchored.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:23]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:24]:
In what I know is true about God and just life. And I'm gonna stick it out and be here.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:30]:
Totally.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:30]:
And that teaches you something. Right. That's the part that we think that what teaches us things is the new and the flashy opportunities.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:37]:
But sometimes the best lessons are in the sitting still and in the desert moments. Right. Like, it's not a mistake that God spoke to Moses in the biggest way of his whole life when he was out in the desert. That's not Moses's favorite season of his life. I guarantee it. Right. But that was when God spoke. And so there is a lot of learning to be done if you're in a job where you're like, I know I'm supposed to be anchored and I'm supposed to stay here and.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:03]:
And stick it out.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:05]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:05]:
That's a. That's a huge leadership win to stay somewhere and to learn how to stay in adverse situations.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:11]:
So good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:13]:
The other one, I was going to say that I've learned recently that I think is really cool. There's the concept of networking in the leadership business world, which is really positive. Right. Like, go be on LinkedIn and connect with all these people.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:28]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:28]:
Make sure you know a lot of people. Right. Like, getting jobs is a lot about who you know. All that stuff's true. I'm saying all that stuff's true. Networking is valuable. Relationships. Relationships, relationships.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:40]:
But I saw something recently, an article that was talking less about networking and more about building allies. And I think that's a cooler way to look at it. Building up relationships in which you believe in and advocate for other people, and in return, they believe in and advocate for you. So it's one thing to just, like, know everybody.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:03]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:03]:
It's another thing to have everybody be on your team so that when they're in rooms that you're not in, they are advocating for your opportunities and your growth. There's a woman here, Teresa is her name, and she handles our speaking calendar. And I listen to her and I watch her. She's really quick to put up, like, new name opportunities to do all kinds of different things. Like, this person should lead this. This staff meeting moment. This person should do this. This person should do this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:32]:
And I'm like, that's the kind of relationships that we need to start investing in. Not just networking for the sake of networking, but who are you spending time with? And building an ally in somebody. And part of building an ally in somebody is helping them feel a special investment in your Growth.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:47]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:48]:
So that's seeking out mentorship. It's seeking out feedback from people that you really admire, you really respect their work, and you invite them to come in and give feedback to your work.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:58]:
Work.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:58]:
Because again, it goes back to that first principle. People help support what they help create. So if you feel like people have a bought interest in you, they're going to be bought into your success and they will help you get to the places that you want to go.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:13]:
And it's actually a way safer way to do life and leadership because it's not just you directing your own steps, I should say it's not just you and God, which. You and God can be a great combo. It's the. It's the great combo. But you and God mixed with a lot of wise counsel. That's the safest way to do leadership and decisions, you know?
Leslie Johnston [00:57:32]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:33]:
So I think that's a new way.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:34]:
Of looking at it flips competition on its head. It's like, oh, no, I'm not in competition with these people. I'm actually becoming allies with all these people. And networking feels like, oh, you just know who you know and you rub shoulders and this person knows this person. But a lot of the ally part is like actually serving other people and doing. Not just thinking of yourself, but doing stuff for other people. And I think that's one of the biggest leadership things is like, are you a servant? Like, we like someone we work with who's like, high up in the organization. He's like led things for years and years.
Leslie Johnston [00:58:13]:
Like, he has no business being the person who's like the last person at an event, tearing down chairs, doing all that. But he does because he's such a good leader. Like, I think you can take all the leadership tricks and all these things in the book, but if you don't, if you're not focusing on like serving other people, then I think we're gonna show up short and we're gonna show up short to God in our leadership. Because really, it's like Jesus was the prime example of like, he washed people's feet. He. He like lowered himself so that other people could be raised up. And I just think if we're not, we should take our lessons from Jesus and, and the way that he served. And it's like, man, I'm even convicted by that of like, what am I doing to like, serve the people on my team and like, serve my co workers and serve other people? Because I think when we, when, when you're younger and you start to get into leadership.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:07]:
You want people to take you seriously. And sometimes the lie is like, oh, I don't want to do those, like, small jobs, because then people will think I'm just a small job person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:17]:
Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:17]:
And it's like, no, I think the servant heartedness is what gets you also into the room and mixed with a million other things. But I just think that's a good. That's a good point. It's like, you know what? Jesus. Jesus was a pretty good leader. So.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:32]:
Yeah, I think that's how you can bank on the fact that that method works. Like, like your, your logical brain tells you, if I put myself in small situations, then I'm not gonna translate well to big situations. But you know that it works well that way because that's what Jesus did. And he was. He was exalted in doing that.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:51]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:51]:
So it's. It's not necessarily the popular way to do it, but that's the effective way to do it. And you've seen the fruit of that. The people who do that are people you want to follow and you respect more people who don't. You're like, like you're not a leader that I want to.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:05]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:05]:
Be around or like, I'm not going to be on your team.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:07]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:08]:
I won't champion the direction you're going. So I think that's a. That's a great way to end, actually. That's so good.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:14]:
I love it.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:15]:
That's a lot. No, that's so good. No, nothing else. That was really good. I learned a lot. I like, it was cool to recap some of those things coming off of like a really great.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:24]:
Oh, yeah. Really great conference.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:27]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:28]:
Yep. So you guys, guys follow along with Thrive and all that we're doing over there.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:34]:
If you want.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:34]:
If you want more leadership stuff also too, if you want to be a part of a. We've got like the Thrive Leaders Community. Brand new to Thrive, like hot off the press last week.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:44]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:45]:
It's called Thrive Leaders Community. And you can sign up for that. Maybe we'll put it in the show notes or something.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:50]:
But it's like 365 days a year. It's community work, networking with other people, especially if you're in like, ministry. This is a great tool. There's like workshops and all this stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:01]:
But it's gonna be really good.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:02]:
Leadership can be lonely. So make sure you surround yourself with good people and community and get to the things that help inspire you to keep being a good leader.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:11]:
Yes. That's so good.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:13]:
Thanks.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:13]:
For listening, you guys. See you next week.
Leslie Johnston [01:01:15]:
Good night.
Morgan May Treuil [01:01:16]:
Good. That's it. Good night.