Leslie Johnston [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to. Am I doing this right? Morgan and I here? And we are so excited because this is an episode for the moms. We haven't done an episode for the moms yet. Young moms. I was gonna say old moms. I should say that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:14]:
Well, no, there are old moms because some moms have grown children like our moms.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:18]:
Yeah, but would you say, like, you're an older.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:21]:
I would tell my mother that, but probably nobody else's mom.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:00:24]:
Mature moms.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:25]:
Yes. Mature moms. But you could also be young and mature.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:30]:
Exactly.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:31]:
For our episode. And this is also for non moms as well. And we have the Casey short on the podcast. I know. She's amazing. I mean, she's a new mom. Very new mom. How old is Callum now?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:00:45]:
Callum is eight weeks old.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:47]:
Eight weeks.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:48]:
The fact that you had a baby eight weeks ago and you're on this podcast, I think for my first year after having child, I will be just on bed rest that I've self diagnosed myself with.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:01]:
Be like, I'm.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:02]:
You will be on bed.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:02]:
Self. Bedrest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:04]:
Yeah. Eight weeks ago, you had Callum.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:06]:
I did. Okay.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:07]:
We're gonna hear all about that.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:08]:
But wait, can you tell us what's his full name?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:11]:
Callum Harvey Short. And we are obsessed with him.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:16]:
And what does his name mean? Because I feel like it's kind of meaningful.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:19]:
It is. So, Callum is Scott Irish, and both my husband and I have Scott Irish in our bloodlines, and it means dove. And so we really loved it. Cause it's a representation of gentleness and an alternative type of strength for a baby boy.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:36]:
Oh, that's so sweet.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:38]:
That's beautiful.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:39]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:40]:
Did the naming process take a long time? Did you guys throw out a lot of different options, or did you guys feel pretty focused?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:47]:
Honestly, there were a lot of different options. At first. We came up with a whole list, and Callum wasn't even on the first list.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:52]:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:01:53]:
But once we found out he was a boy, for some reason, that whole first list, like, nothing fit. So we put it to the side, and we just started googling names. And Brandon was actually the one who found Callum. And I think we named him that on accident, kind of, because both of us just started calling him Callum when I was, like, at the end of my first trimester. And so one day, we looked at each other, and we're like. We keep on calling him Callum. Is that his name? And, yeah, here it is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:19]:
That's his name.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:19]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:20]:
See, Leslie, it is normal.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:22]:
It is.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:23]:
Wait, wait. What's normal?
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:25]:
I'm just laughing because the dog that's sitting in Leslie's lap has had a few name changes since it's entered the world.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:31]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:32]:
And it's normal to be like, oh.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:33]:
This wasn't even our list, but now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:34]:
We'Re calling his dog sign.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:36]:
You know what?
Leslie Johnston [00:02:36]:
He's probably gonna have a new name by the next podcast.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:38]:
I mean, I just thought you.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:40]:
Ryder bear.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:41]:
Ryder Bear.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:42]:
Because I can't decide if I like Ryder or bear or better. So he's Rider bear, so it's both.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:46]:
And then you can choose whichever one you call him. Yeah. Yep.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:48]:
Yes. Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:49]:
Did Brandon have any names that you were like, I hate it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:53]:
Oh, that's a good question.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:02:54]:
And Leslie, I think you know of one of them. What is it? Damien was, like, his favorite name. Like, he was so locked in on Damien, like, determined for it. Like, tried to get me to name Callum Damien, even, like, up until it was like, weeks before Callum was born, because he has, like, a hero of the faith named Damien. But whenever I hear Damien, I think of, like, a supervillain. And so I just couldn't do it. I was like, my baby is not a supervillain.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:23]:
Like, he's always wearing black and red. And there's Damien. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:27]:
I can see what you're saying.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:03:28]:
I mean, what comes to mind for you when you think Damien?
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:31]:
Probably the same thing or someone who, like, a. Like, really dark eyeliner. Oh, maybe Damien.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:37]:
A man who wears dark eyeliner. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:39]:
Which is fine, but that's what comes to mind.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:03:43]:
Or I also think of someone who's, like, very into themselves. I don't know why. But, like, when I think of Damien, I think of that. Yeah. That character on, like, a tv show that's, like, into themselves and mean to all the girls.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:55]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:56]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:56]:
And you're sorry.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:57]:
If your name is Damien, I'm really.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:00]:
Sorry Damien's out there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:03]:
Also.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:03]:
Your dad, Leslie, was like, damien was the name of the Antichrist in this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:08]:
Movie from the eighties.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:10]:
Satan himself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:12]:
Did he say that to Brandon? Did it sway him?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:16]:
Not really. He was still stuck on Damien.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:18]:
Oh, my gosh.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:19]:
All about to say, we're not naming any of our kids Damien. It's not happening.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:23]:
No.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:23]:
Damien. Have you heard the TikTok trend or video where it's people being like, if these. If these words weren't items, they would be really good baby names?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:34]:
Yeah. Like, if they weren't already something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:36]:
Yeah. It would be a good name.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:37]:
They would be a great baby name.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:38]:
Have you heard of felony?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:40]:
I've never seen this trend?
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:41]:
Yeah, like felony.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:42]:
I have a new one I thought of yesterday cause of the dog. Parvo.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:04:48]:
Like, for a boy or a girl?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:51]:
Well, I don't know, but, like, you know, Parvo's the disease that kills dogs. Parvo would be such a cool name.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:56]:
Yes. I like camel, but I. Morgan, dead.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:01]:
Serious in staff meeting yesterday, turns to me and goes, what about the name Camel? C a m e l for a kid. I was like, you looked at me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:09]:
And you were like, are you pregnant? And I'm like, no. And you're like, I like it.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:14]:
Then I love it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:15]:
And I love it.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:17]:
I can't get on board with parvo.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:19]:
Or camel, but what is one for you? What's camera? If it wasn't a camera, that'd be a cool name for a kid. Do you have one of those?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:27]:
Oh, I don't know if the one that comes to mind for me is, like, the gum name. Stride. What about, like, Strider?
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:33]:
Ooh. Oh, yeah, that's a good one.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:34]:
Well, that's kind of cool.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:35]:
I think Stridor would be cool, but I also don't know if that counts. Cause it's kind of adding on to the gum name. So I think I cheated or.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:41]:
No, Strider is also like the hospital bed brand or something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:45]:
Whoa.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:45]:
They do like, oh, you have some medical knowledge.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:47]:
Well, I knew somebody who worked for them, but, yeah, it's like medical equipment.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:52]:
Macy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:52]:
Is that right? Strider? Yeah. Well, Macy's off camera. Do you want to introduce Macy, too?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:05:58]:
I would love to. So my sister in law is off camera hanging out with me today. Her name is Macy Short, and I love her so wholeheartedly. One, because she's just incredible and also because of the way that she loves our baby. It is a whole different type of love and appreciation you have for your family and your friends when you see the way they love your child. Whoa.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:22]:
So sweet.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:06:22]:
And that's why Macy's here. Loving on Callum.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:26]:
I love that. And you guys are going to Napa today, right?
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:28]:
We are. Oh, it's so fun.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:06:30]:
Yeah. A brave adventure with an eight week old. Could be wonderful. Could be a disaster. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:35]:
I like that you're doing that, though, because we're not moms. So everything we're going to talk about, I feel like we're like, how do you ask questions that you don't fully understand? But it is interesting. It seems like some people take one or two approaches to this. They're either like, I'm going to bust out into the world with my child. And, like, bring them with me. Or you could maybe stick to a little bit more of a stricter schedule and bedtimes and nap times and stuff like that. So I like that you're like, we're going to go to Napa. We're going to keep doing what we usually do.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:07:08]:
Yeah. We just kind of looked at one another, I would say four weeks in. Cause first four weeks, very different than when you're heading into the eight week period. It's just an all hands on deck situation.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:22]:
Survival mode.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:07:23]:
You're in survival. Absolutely. And part of that is I didn't know before I had callum about cluster feeding. You're in the hospital, and they tell you your baby's gonna eat every two to 3 hours. So in my mind, as I'm reading all the books and building my head knowledge, I'm like, okay, so we'll feed the baby, and then the baby will sleep, and then brandon and I will have a little bit of free time while the baby's napping. We can clean and things like that. We got this. This is gonna be hard, but we can do it.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:07:49]:
Then we have a baby that just fights sleep like it's his enemy in life and does not like naps. And also cluster feeds.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:58]:
Which means what means cluster feeding?
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:59]:
Oh, good question.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:08:00]:
It means the baby is growing a lot, so they eat more. And cluster feeding could be once an hour or it could be every ten minutes. For 4 hours.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:10]:
Oh, every ten minutes for 4 hours.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:08:13]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:13]:
So it's just.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:15]:
The baby is just. That is survival mode for ten. Every ten minutes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:08:19]:
Yeah. So really, first four weeks, if you breastfeed, yes. If you breastfeed. If you're breastfeeding, first four weeks, that's when it's kind of most common. It might happen week two and week three. It might happen week four. Typically, it happens again at week six. Yeah, they're normal.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:08:36]:
This mic is gonna keep happening, but when that's happening, you actually really. It's hard to go out. Like you're kind of trapped to the couch because the baby needs food. And that's the only thing that makes Callum happy when he's cluster feeding, because he goes from a baby that gently latches on and wants to eat to. During cluster feeding, I called him the tiny piranha. Cause literally, it could be ten minutes, and then ten minutes in, he's crying and coming at you with mouth open.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:07]:
Oh, my gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:08]:
Fangs everywhere.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:11]:
I'm like, you're like a little piranha. And then when the cluster feeding's over, that stops.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:16]:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:17]:
And they just kind of latch on normally again.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:19]:
Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:20]:
But all I've had to say during that time, there's, like, really no leaving the house. You kind of get cabin fever. And so Brandon and I looked at one another and we're like, as soon as we can, we have to start figuring out how to be whole people again. Whole people with baby, who we love, but also whole people with friends and hobbies and self care so that we can continue showing up wholeheartedly for our tiny human.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:43]:
Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:44]:
So we're trying to do that now.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:46]:
And, Casey, are you back to work yet or am.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:49]:
Ok, I'm on.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:50]:
Tell everybody what you do, and you're kind of a boss, so let everybody know what you do.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:55]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:55]:
You guys are nice.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:56]:
Thank you.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:09:57]:
I feel really fortunate to work as a clinical psychologist, and I love it. The work brings me such meaning and purpose. I feel so fortunate to work with the clients I get to work with. I work with some amazing human beings, and I get to witness them prove themselves wrong, do things they thought were impossible, and be incredibly courageous with their vulnerability. So I just. I adore it. I work mostly with kids, teens and young adults, so that mix is really fun, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:24]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:10:25]:
And it's been a learning curve to notice how I'm showing up differently now that I come in as a mom as well. Cause the cool thing about being a psychologist is, yes, you have all the head knowledge, but there's no taking you away from the job. So you come in as your whole self every single session with a client. But now my whole self is different, so I'm adjusting to that. Wow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:50]:
I've been curious to hear about some of those, like how that changes perspective or even how you talk with clients. Cause I feel like motherhood adds a whole different layer to your experience as a human being. It has to.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:11:03]:
It does. The largest difference, I felt when I was pregnant, and I still feel it now, because with all the hormone changes to pregnancy, postpartum, I've experienced my feelings much more deeply. And so I noticed myself feeling with my clients more deeply, and that has still continued to be the case. There's a challenge to that. Challenge. Being self care looks different because I notice I'm carrying stuff with me more and feeling more tired. But the beauty to it is I found some of the most powerful moments of connection that were really genuine, were definitely impacted by me becoming a mom. I felt like I was able to meet with someone in a different way in a moment of pain because I was carrying a child.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:11:51]:
Of my own or because I'm freshly postpartum and more connected to my own vulnerability and exhaustion. And so I'm really grateful for those moments. It's kind of a two sided coin. Yeah. That's really cool. Wow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:05]:
It's beautiful.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:07]:
And you work full. How many clients do you have right now? Cause you own your own practice.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:12:13]:
I do, yeah. And I love it.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:16]:
I'm like, she's not gonna say that, but I'm like, you own your own practice and you're a doctor. You are a doctor.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:12:22]:
You guys are very kind to me. Thank you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:24]:
We're just telling you what's true.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:25]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:26]:
We're not being kind. We're just telling clients.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:12:29]:
Yeah. I feel so, so grateful. I truly love what I do, and I have around 23 clients right now, so that's another shift pulling back in some of my clinical work. I do about 19 sessions a week right now. I work three days a week. And that's, I guess, more of a practical shift, and one that I'm so grateful for because I've never been more aware what a privilege it is to get to go back to work on my own terms. Most women don't get that choice, and a lot of women don't get a choice about how they go to work or if they're going to work or what their schedule is going to be. And a lot of women are not supported in postpartum.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:13:09]:
And so I feel so incredibly grateful that as I've gone back to work, I've chosen my days, my hours, the times, so that I'm getting to kind of create my life with Callum and my professional world based on my terms. That has been life changing and has made going back to work so much easier, because I don't feel like my career is taking away from motherhood or motherhood. It's taking away from my career. I'm finding a way to we of the two, but that also comes from the privilege of actually getting to make that choice. So I'm really grateful for it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:45]:
That's fantastic. I have follow up questions on that in particular, because we talk to women on this podcast and men for what seems like from all kind of ages and stages and life seasons. And I do feel like, at least for some of the young adults that I'm talking to, there's this desire towards motherhood, this desire towards career. And then, you know, I think myself and a few others, a few others, meaning like millions and millions of others, are asking that question of how you actually can do both really well, because it does seem a little bit more different for the female than it does for the male. That because motherhood requires so much of you, it makes total sense to do motherhood as the full time thing. But then also, there are some people who are driven towards these somewhat robust careers. Like you said, dialing back to 19 clients was dialing back. And I'm like, I'd love to know what a full week used to look like if that's scaling back, but I.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:14:48]:
Probably worked too much, in all honesty.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:50]:
But that's probably a part of your. Like, you are a driven person. You have goals and dreams specifically in this area. And I'm sure a lot of people are asking that question of, can I have both? And can I do both? So I want to get to that. But we have to start this podcast the way that we always start this podcast. And we can't forget with our guests that we're really good friends with. We just head right in.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:10]:
We jump right in, and then we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:11]:
Forget the structure and the order of this thing.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:14]:
Way to keep it in order.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:15]:
We're keeping it in order. Leslie's usually the order person, but I'm like, let's bring it back. Okay, so first things first. We always start this episode with an unpopular opinion. And we usually have our guests bring because we love to argue about these things. We love to argue about who's wrong and who's right. And as it turns out, some of these unpopular opinions have turned out to be very controversial in the world. So we would love to hear if you have an unpopular opinion.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:15:37]:
I do, and it's one that I think Leslie already knows. You may already know this about me as well, Morgan. My unpopular opinion. And, I don't know, maybe it's not an unpopular opinion. Hot take is that I actually wholeheartedly believe that any human being who does not live by a coastline, by the ocean, is living a lesser life. Oh, and I say it with that type of strength on purpose. Like, I really believe. And I recognize the irony of this.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:07]:
Right?
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:07]:
You don't live nearby.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:08]:
I don't live on the coastline. So I am one of those humans right now.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:12]:
My life is less.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:13]:
I own it. I can still have a good life, but I do still believe less.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:16]:
We can have a great one.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:18]:
I truly believe it's lesser. And I have some evidence for this. You guys, at least present. So have you seen the blue zones documentary on Netflix?
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:26]:
Yes, I have not seen it, but I'm familiar with what we're talking about.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:30]:
Okay, so just for everyone, brief summary blue zones, the areas of the world that have the most people living to 100 years old with the highest quality of life. So, hypothetically, these are the areas that make people the most healthy and the most happy in the whole entire world. And the vast majority of these blue zones are all coastal. Interesting. Not to mention people tend to have less anxiety and depression when they live by the sea.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:54]:
That's what's wrong with me.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:16:55]:
Not to mention it is beautiful and cute little animals like sea otters live there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:00]:
So cute little babies. That's true. I will say. I think that there's probably. I mean, the blue zone thing is very fascinating to me because when you look at that documentary, in some of those places, it's a mixture of environment, it's a mixture of food, it's a mixture of what's accessible to you. So when Benji and I were in Italy for our honeymoon, which you guys did.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:17:20]:
Italy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:20]:
And you guys gave us great tips and tricks for that, too. I don't even know if we fully unpacked all of the Italy things.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:17:26]:
Another talk for another day.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:27]:
Another talk for another day, exactly. But we were in Capri for the day. And this is the case for most places in Italy, actually, which you've been to. It's not necessarily. We were noting that it was not necessarily handicap accessible. Lots of the places that. That you go to. So, like, especially in these coastal towns, Capri, Positano, Sorrento.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:48]:
In Sorrento was the only place that we found an elevator that gets from, like, an elevator to get you down to the beach. And it cost money to ride in the elevator.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:17:58]:
Well, that is concerning.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:59]:
We had to pay money. And so we were just noticing. We were like, man, the people who live here, you walk and you walk at great, like, inclines and declines. Lots and lots of stairs.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:18:11]:
Tons of stairs.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:12]:
We remember being in Capri, and we, like, ride the fish. And to get to, like, the really fun center of town in Capri, with all the shops and restaurants, you have to go straight, like, almost seven. I don't know what the percentage was, but, like, basically an incline of, like, stairs and ramp for at least a mile, if not more.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:18:30]:
Wow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:30]:
To get to the center of town and Benji and I are stopping every five minutes to, like, breathe. We're sweating through our clothes. It is so hot. We are so tired. And there are these women that are taking their walks to and from work strapped up with all of their, like, supplies, and they're just booking it, and they. There's no stopping, there's no breathing. Heavy they are in their seventies and they're just going for it. And I'm like, this is some blue zone stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:57]:
You're by the ocean and there's no transportation that you have to take. You're walking everywhere and you're eating all the food that's not processed and it's not bad for you. Doesn't have much additives, so you're just driving.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:08]:
I also really. Documentary. I've only watched, like, one episode, but they talk a lot about people who are elderly not being. This could be a hot take. They're not actually in homes. They're with their family. Like, family takes care of family, and that's a huge part of it. And I was like, oh, my gosh.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:26]:
So sweet and so sad.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:19:28]:
That is really sad. There's a ton of research, actually, on the elderly and grandchildren. The elderly who have access to their grandchildren and are a large part of their grandchildren's lives tend to have less health problems and a longer life expectancy. Wow. So I think that just speaks to what you're saying. We're better together and community really matters at all ages.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:49]:
Like, I need to move back and be near my grandma.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:19:51]:
Yeah. And let's all know your grandma's in Texas.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:55]:
She's gonna live forever. She's preserved by something. She's very. She's lively and active and I bet there's a vampire. Both my grandmas are. They're, like, healthy and. Well, I know they're kind of vampireish. They're not, but they are.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:07]:
They live like one kind of Damien life.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:20:11]:
Full circle vampires.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:14]:
So I think we. I think I would agree with you. Do you agree the coastal thing?
Leslie Johnston [00:20:18]:
Oh, yeah. I kind of forgot what we were talking about. Yes. I mean, I do think the ocean air, it's beautiful. Yeah. The lake is just not always the same.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:20:29]:
But I feel that way.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:30]:
Like if you were up in. If you lived in Tahoe or in the mountains near water, I think you could maybe have the same. Like when I go up to Tahoe and you've got the fresh air from the pine trees and you're near the lake and it's, like, silent. I think it's. To me, that's, like, almost just as good as the ocean.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:20:48]:
It's close. Not still lesser, but I think, you know, we're all in agreement here that we're living beautiful and good lives. They're just slightly lesser, slight.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:01]:
I agree. I think mountains, to me, would equal, like, a elevated, maybe still lesser than coastal, but mountains, something beautiful.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:08]:
Agreed.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:09]:
It's not mountain.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:10]:
You're better than the ocean.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:11]:
You're mountain, girl.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:12]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:12]:
I think I'm more mountain.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:13]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:13]:
The older I get, there are people who believe that.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:16]:
Absolutely.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:17]:
She's like, I'm not believe that.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:20]:
I'm not one of them. However, my mother is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:24]:
She's a mountain.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:25]:
She is a mountain person. That would be, you know, this. I feel like this could be, like a full on, like, battle.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:30]:
Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:31]:
If we, like, surveyed 100 people, we might get half and half. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:36]:
I also feel like a lot of beaches are kind of. They've made them so commercialized, or they're filled with people and they're just not the beautiful beach that it probably once was. So maybe that's when I need to. I need to go to some better beaches.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:49]:
We need to get you to like Carmel.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:51]:
Ooh, Carmel.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:53]:
There's a lot of things we could talk about with Carmel. Oh, there's a other one.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:21:56]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:57]:
That needs to be another one, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:58]:
You can't wear, like, it was against a lot of. Wear high heels in Carmel because of the cobblestone. Yes. And you go to chew gum. It's still technically, I think, in their law, but nobody enforces it.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:22:07]:
Wow. You have to get a gun to.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:09]:
Wear them or something. I don't know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:10]:
Well, they're doing something right because it's pristine there and it feels like you're in. Have you ever been to the Salt Lake City airport? Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:18]:
No.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:18]:
You know how you walk in there and you're like, this is weirdly peaceful and very quiet.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:22:22]:
The city is that way, too. Super clean.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:25]:
It's very clean. We scootered through there on a layover. We had, like, eight hour layover in Salt Lake City. And you're scootering through and it's weirdly silent. Humans everywhere, but, like, silent. Everybody's obeying some kind of, like, code of silence. Like, we don't talk loudly here because it's relaxing. And the airport is that way, too.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:42]:
It's one of the most relaxing places on planet Earth. The Salt Lake City airport. Carmel's kind of like that. They're all achieving something that we don't have in other places, so we need to do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:52]:
Okay, Casey, I have some other questions for you, since we are here to talk about. Well, we could talk about the beach forever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:57]:
That was a good opinion, by the way.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:59]:
That was great.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:59]:
Unpopular opinion.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:23:00]:
Thank you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:01]:
You can tell a lot about a guest from which unpopular opinion that they bring.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:04]:
Yes. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:05]:
For sure. That was good.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:06]:
Casey has a lot of really funny unpopular opinions that I've heard, but I like that one that you chose. Okay, so being a new mom, give us some. Like, what are some mythbusters? Things that you thought going into motherhood, things that maybe people have told you that you believed or things that you've learned in your eight weeks of being a new mom?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:23:26]:
Okay, I've got some funny ones and some serious ones.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:29]:
Okay, I'm ready.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:23:30]:
Funny ones. I think the cluster feeding thing, like I was told, guangian newborns eat every two to 3 hours.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:39]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:23:40]:
And. Nope, nope. Cluster feeding. For our first week, callum was, like, on me for like 4 hours at a time, like every day.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:49]:
Wow.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:23:49]:
Yeah. So that was a major myth busted there, and that was a huge adjustment. I was like, all right, I thought I had a tiny newborn, and instead I have a tiny piranha. Yes. And we are learning how to love the piranha, by the way.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:03]:
Like, while you're feeding and he's on you for 4 hours, what are you doing?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:24:08]:
Reading, instagramming, watching Tv. Talking to Brannon. Trying not to sleep because you are real tired that first week.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:16]:
Trying not to sleep.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:24:18]:
Yes. Because if you're sitting upward, I wouldn't want to risk him falling if I fell asleep. But yes, you have to find ways to fill up the time because there's a lot of time where you're sitting and baby is eating if you are breastfeeding. Yeah. And another surprise or myth. We had tons of friends say we have a baby boy, and they were like, don't worry, they never pee while you're changing them. That happened to us three times their entire infant stage. So I was like, okay, I don't need to worry about this.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:24:49]:
It's not gonna happen that much. Guys, you wanna take a guess how many times Callum peed on us in the first week?
Leslie Johnston [00:24:55]:
First week.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:56]:
First week.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:24:57]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:58]:
Two, three.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:24:59]:
Oh, it was like over 14 times.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:01]:
What?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:01]:
He did it multiple times every single day.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:04]:
Did you get one of those little. The pee pee tents?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:07]:
Yes. So there is this product out there, for those of you that don't know the product's brand name. And this is pretty great, you guys. Is the pee pee teepee.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:16]:
Peepee.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:17]:
Peepee.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:17]:
That's what it was.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:18]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:20]:
Like, their branding is like, so on point because literally it's like this little, like, teepee and then it has little campfires all around it and you just put it right on penis.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:33]:
I think that's the first time we've said that on this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:35]:
For sure.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:35]:
For sure. Perfect time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:38]:
Perfect time.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:38]:
The PPTP. That's my role here. Yes. The PPTP is a lifesaver for baby boys. So everyone out there, go get one.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:46]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:47]:
We'll save you from being peed on 14 times.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:50]:
14?
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:51]:
That's crazy. That's twice.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:25:53]:
Yeah, and it's wild. You don't think, like, you wonder, how far can a baby pee? It's something I never thought I would ever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:59]:
We're talking, like, how far is it?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:26:01]:
Oh, he peed over his head, like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:06]:
A wall on the other side and ricocheted back.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:09]:
You're like, nothing is safe. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:11]:
That's so funny.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:26:12]:
Peeing in Brandon's face.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:13]:
That.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:14]:
Oh, my gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:15]:
Oh, and you're just laughing.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:26:17]:
What do you do? I mean, he's adorable. It's very adaptive. You look down at this tiny little human peeing everywhere, but he has these massive eyes and the cutest little lips, and you're like, oh, I can't be mad at you. No. Like, you're too cute.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:30]:
You're way too cute.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:26:31]:
So, yeah, we were lied to about that. He pees a lot. Okay. You gotta watch out when you're changing the diaper.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:38]:
Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:26:39]:
And then, on a more serious note, I think all of my friends were so vulnerable and generous in sharing their mothering experience, and that was immensely helpful. And one of the things they shared was really. Until you're living it, there's so much you won't know. Like, you learn on the job, and you have to. And I found that to be so incredibly true. So I guess that part wasn't a myth. The part that surprised me, that I wasn't prepared for, is the experience of love. There's just, like, nothing that you.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:27:15]:
There's nothing that I could compare it to. Like, I've never experienced a love. Like, the love I have for Callum. I love my husband, and, like, he is absolutely my priority and my partner. I love my friends and my family. But the love you have for a child, it's so exponential. Like, there are no bounds to it. Like, I would fight for Callum.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:27:39]:
I would give up anything for him. I would do anything to make sure that he's okay. His dreams are one of the most important things for me in the world right now, and he doesn't even know what he dreams of yet. And that has been so meaningful, and it's still something I'm processing. Like, it feels really powerful. And it's definitely teaching me about the love that God has for us as well. And then at the same time, there's also this loss that you know is going to happen, but I wasn't prepared for until I'm experiencing it. And I could go on and on about it, but, like, loss of autonomy, loss of free time, loss of our old way of being with Brandon and I, like, our partnership is changing forever.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:28:25]:
And it's beautiful and it's good, but it's different. And some of the things that we loved about our usness, we don't have anymore. And we're building newness to our usness that we do love. And so there is a substantial amount of loss, and then there's also this longing that I didn't foresee coming. It's like, all the longings I have for Callum, it's really tied to the love. Like, I just didn't realize how the minute he was here, I would long for his peace, for his wellness, for his health, for opportunities, for him, for his joy, for the people in my life to love him. And it feels kind of like a longing that is endless. Like, the love is endless.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:29:13]:
It's genuinely changed. My perspective, values what I want in the future. And that piece, you kind of know in your head things are gonna change, but you don't know in your heart till you're living the experience. So that's been a surprise. Wow. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:32]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:32]:
I love the way that you're talking about this, because we were talking about this before, just that sometimes it feels like when we talk to moms because we're not moms, it either feels like the experience is fully positive and neglects all realities and negative, or it's fully negative and, like, leaves out some of the positives. And you, in what you just explained, it feels like you're experiencing everything, and it's so good, and there's parts of it that are hard. I'm really fascinated by the loss and the grieving of it, because I know a lot of people who love their current life and love their relationship with their husbands or love their jobs, you know, in the way that things are. I'd be curious to hear you explain yours and Brannon's decision and timeline with, like, how when you guys decided to start having kids. Cause you waited longer than what maybe, like, the societal pressures say is normal. Could you speak to that a little bit?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:30:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. So, just for context, we waited until I was 30 to start trying to have a baby, and I had my baby at 31. That's amazing. And we were married for ten years before we started trying to have a baby. Part of that is, like, our joke was the first baby was the PhD.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:54]:
Yes. And Gizmo.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:57]:
And Gizmo.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:30:58]:
And Gizmo. It took a lot of love and devotion to get through both of those things. But something that, again, I didn't know until I was experiencing is Brandon and I had this idea that we want to really enjoy our partnership before bringing a child into the world. Like, we want to have some fun together, we want to have shared experiences, we want to adventure, and we want to learn and grow as people. We also had these secondary goals of, there are areas in our partnership that need some mending. There are areas of personal growth that both of us want to work on so that we can show up as different versions of ourselves when we're raising a tiny human right. Yeah. And we had this idea that we think we're gonna be happy that we took this time to do all these things, but honestly, we don't know until we get pregnant and we have a baby.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:31:47]:
Maybe we'll regret it waiting so long. And so I can only speak from my experience. I think every parent's experience is different in terms of what timing works for them. But for Brandon and I, especially the first four weeks, when we realized how acutely our life was different forever, we looked at one another and felt so incredibly grateful that we did wait, because for us, that was a good choice. It was a good choice to be able to look back at the past ten years and remember all of those shared experiences of joy that really created glue for our marriage and for our partnership. And we're so grateful that we can look back and also think of both of us being in multiple years of our own individual therapy and couples therapy, so that there's greater trustworthiness in our partnership. Because, man, that's another adjustment. When you're in it, in the foxhole of newborn stage together, your partnership matters so deeply and the strengths come out and the weaknesses do.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:32:48]:
And so both of us were like, I'm so grateful that we prioritized our partnership because it made newborn season much more possible, and it made both of us feel like we weren't in it alone. And so every person is different, but for us both for strengthening our partnership and also just, like, having a lot of fun early on, I don't regret waiting. I felt like it was a really good choice for us. I mean, you know, downside is there is a difference to recovering postpartum when you're 31 versus 25.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:23]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:24]:
So, you know, you know, 31 just hits different. So my recovery is going to take a little bit longer. Yeah, but that's okay. Yeah. So, yeah, that. That's been our experience.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:36]:
Wow, that's really good. What do you think? Like, in terms of you and Brandon, obviously.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:42]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:42]:
You guys have had ten years of marriage, right? You've been married ten years.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:46]:
Yeah. And about two weeks.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:48]:
That's a decade.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:49]:
Okay.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:49]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:50]:
That's amazing.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:51]:
8Th is our ten year.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:51]:
Not everybody gets that, by the way. Like, ten years of marriage before a kid. I feel like you hear the typical, like, four, five. We all got married young.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:33:58]:
We did get married, and we were.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:00]:
Like, babies ourselves, so our first baby was ourselves.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:34:07]:
Then.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:07]:
Get that real. Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:34:09]:
We had a lot of growing up to do.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:10]:
Yeah. So you guys have such a solid foundation. I mean, both Morgan and I know you guys as a couple, and just how strong and, like, the respect you have for each other is, like, unmatched. And. But having. Having a baby now, I know you're fresh into it. How do you feel like your relationship has shifted or how it's been different? What's been hard, what's been good? What are things that you're like, oh, we've really had to focus on this or just speak to the person who's maybe listening, going, I'm just. I'm a new mom myself.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:40]:
Like, I kind of feel like this baby needs me all the time and this, I mean, obviously, priority and. But how do I still prioritize my marriage while juggling all of that? I would imagine that would be really hard.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:34:52]:
It is really hard. And my honest answer is, we're still figuring it out also. What comes to mind for me is the hardest thing in my particular experience has also been the best thing, and that is 100% true. And that's for me, allowing myself to be vulnerable with Brannon outside of the boundaries where I've normally been vulnerable. Like, of course there's been vulnerable moments in our marriage and in our relationship. We've been together for a long time, since we were 15, but I've never experienced a vulnerability like the one I experienced in pregnancy, in labor, and in postpartum, like, where I literally cannot show up as my best self. It's not possible. There's no willpower, there's no discipline, and there's no walking my way through showing up as my best self.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:35:50]:
It's not possible. I can't do it. And so it creates this opportunity for Brandon to love and support me at a version of myself where I don't feel as lovable or I don't feel as capable or I don't feel like a badass and I know everyone has a different experience of pregnancy, labor, and postpartum, but for me, pregnancy was immensely difficult. I experienced a lot of pain, a pretty massive increase in anxiety, and was not sleeping through pretty much almost all of the pregnancy. So, as you can imagine, that changes you. I felt less joyful and less engaged and more tired and less present with him. So I really felt the sense that I could not partner with him in the way that I wanted to. And you're left with the situation at that point where Brandon gets to make a choice.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:36:44]:
So, like, how will I support Kasey when she's not the normal version of herself? And I'm really, really grateful that what I experienced was a husband who really practiced empathy, who really tried to understand, who tried to fill in the gaps, and, you know, for the moments where he was human, too. Cause that happened where, you know, I'm not being the kindest version of myself, and understandably so. That's hard for him. He was willing to come back and repair it with me. That's cool. And so that was the hardest part of pregnancy and postpartum. Looking at a version of myself I didn't recognize, one that was not as competent as I normally am, not as regulated, not always as calm, sometimes snapping more and feeling really guilty about all of that because I don't want to be this version of a wife for my husband. And then that opening up the door to feel Brandon's love in moments where, you know, I just feel less lovable.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:37:48]:
That type of trustworthiness that gets created in an environment like that is really powerful. Wow. And so, yes, very hard, because I just felt so vulnerable and very, very good, because now I have a greater trust in my partner, and I really feel the sense of. Okay, like, he is the guy I want in a foxhole with me. Like, he's the guy I want in the trenches with me. Like, we've got this. Whether I show up ready for battle or I show up wounded, he's got my back, and he will love me in both places. Wow.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:38:24]:
And I don't think you know that in your soul until you've lived it with your partner.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:29]:
Right.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:38:30]:
And the newborn stage definitely does that to you.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:33]:
You're like, it'll put you in that experience. Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:38:35]:
So that's a long answer to your question, but, no, that's the answer.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:39]:
That's so beautifully said, because I feel like a lot of times, we can show up with the person that we're dating or married to if we're showing up as our best selves. We're almost like, you love me because I'm this way. And so if I'm not this way, are you still gonna love me? You know, even subconsciously, we probably think that. So when you don't. Almost like, when you don't like yourself and your partner still chooses to love you, that's, like, one of the most powerful, like, unconditional love things that you can experience.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:39:10]:
I mean, that's literally exactly one of our conversations. At one point, I think it was like, it happened in pregnancy and then in postpartum, I looked at Brandon and was like, I know it won't feel this way forever, but I'm having such a hard time because when I look at myself, I don't like who I am right now. Right? Like, I don't even feel like me. I don't recognize her. And, like, Brandon looking at me and, like, with empathy, saying, I know this is really hard, and I want you to know that, like, I love exactly who you are right now. And, like, that moment being so powerful for us.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:45]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:39:47]:
He loves the parts of me that I don't like.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:50]:
That's huge.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:39:51]:
Yeah. And you can say that all day long, but until you're experiencing it together, you don't really know it to be true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:00]:
I think that's really encouraging to the people who are scared to not just even bringing a child into the world, but they're scared of making any big change decision because of what it might do to your marriage dynamic or your life or cause everything. Like, one big thing changes lots of other big things in your life, too. And I wonder about the people, myself included, that when they think about the kids thing, one of the big fears is, oh, does this change the dynamics of things? We were even last night talking about? Like, you know, we have such a great small group with great friendships, and we're like, oh, one of us is going to have a kid eventually. And then that changes the dynamics, or it changes your marriage, or it changes this. And I think the big fear for people would be like, well, what if it changes it in a bad way? What if it puts tension or stress on it? But what you just said is really different. It puts attention and a stress and a joy that propels you into greater depth in your relationship. It, like, takes it to a deeper level, because challenge does that. I mean, we've heard people say on this podcast before, when you're choosing the person to spend the rest of your life with, choose the person that you can suffer well with, because lots of.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:09]:
Not that having a baby is suffering, but lots of life is suffering. And if you find the person who you can get in the foxhole with and in the trenches with, well, then those big life changes take you into greater depth. It doesn't disrupt. It disrupts, and it remends in a really beautiful way it seems like. That's really cool.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:41:29]:
Thanks. And I want to be honest about it. It hasn't been all smooth sailing. I think a part of the reason our partnership is growing in trust is because we've had a lot of support. We've been in couples therapy. We're in couples therapy right now. We try to be really open and honest about our needs, even if that's hard and scary. And then on the practical end, I think you don't need perfection to build trustworthiness, but you do need repair.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:42:01]:
And so, yeah, our relationship has changed. We have had moments in the middle of the night where I snapped. We have had moments in the middle of the night where Brandon had a hard time meeting me, where I was because he was exhausted. And we've both promised one another that we'll continue repairing.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:17]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:42:18]:
And I think the repair is kind of where the gold is. At least it has been for us.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:23]:
Yeah. That's probably, like, when people say, it's not good if you never argue. Like, that's not a good thing to be. Like, oh, we never argue, but it's like, how do you repair that argument? Or how. And sometimes people feel, you know, even closer, even after, you know, something has gone on and you have to repair it.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:42:41]:
Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:41]:
But perfection. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:43]:
Say it again. It's perfection doesn't lead to trustworthiness. It's the repair. Is that what you said?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:42:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:49]:
Hmm.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:42:50]:
Because perfection's not possible. So if a relationship is built on perfection, then essentially you're building it on lies. Yeah, that's not gonna work.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:59]:
Yeah, no, no.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:43:01]:
Yeah, this is not gonna work, and it's gonna be exhausting. Gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:07]:
Yeah. What a facade to keep for so long. And then when you've got a baby, you're, like, unofficially out of perfection.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:43:13]:
Oh, my gosh. Then it's, like, really not possible. And you're like, oh, I'm not even gonna try. Like, I'm inviting people over to my house, and it is a mess.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:25]:
Yeah, it's cool. It's fine.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:26]:
Yeah, yeah. What would you say to our listeners who are single and they're either dating someone or they want to date someone, they want to get married, they want to have kids. What would you tell them? Is something that you've learned recently. Like, this is an important attribute in somebody that you choose to spend a life with and you choose to have kids with. What's something that you're like? This is a non negotiable.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:43:48]:
Okay, that's a good question.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:50]:
It's a really big question for you, but.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:43:52]:
Oh, that's a good question. I have to think about it for a minute. I think I have a few ideas. I'm curious. Like, I want to throw that question back to the two of you and your season of life, too, because I wonder what all of us would say about this. The, like, non negotiables.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:08]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:44:10]:
One for me is. Is date someone who shares in your joy. Meaning, like, they celebrate your strengths, they celebrate your wins, they take it on as their own. They're not intimidated by it, but also, like, shares in your joy. You have fun together. That is such deep glue for the hard times. Like, I love that Brannon points out all the funny things that Callum does, just as much as I love how he supports me when I'm exhausted and I've only slept 2 hours. They're not disconnected.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:44:42]:
And second, I would say date someone who is able to do hard things, because you might, in the beginning, you may not see how they respond to you in your pain because it's the beginning of a relationship, but you can pick up on how have they handled hard experiences in their life if they're in a job they don't like, if they are experiencing a relationship that's really hard in their family, if they're taking on a challenge, are they willing to problem solve, ask for help, keep trying when things get tough in their own life, because that does give you some indicator as to how they're going to partner with you when things get tough in your life. Because if your goal is a long term partnership, then you do need to pick up information about what's it going to be like when we're in the battle together. And then the third thing I would observe is how do they respond to other people's pain and how do they talk about it? It might not be yours initially, although hopefully eventually you'll get that experience and that'll give you some really big green or red flags or the other. But that's always a huge indicator for me. If I hear someone talking about someone else going through a hard time with a lot of judgment or should statements or frustration towards them, pretty immediately I'm thinking, okay, they may have a hard time with empathy. That might be an area of growth for them. They may have a hard time with their own challenges or difficulty. Maybe shame's coming up.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:46:22]:
Maybe they have a hard time not being in a control of a situation. So it's upsetting for them that they can't make this better for the other person. But I think all three of those things are pretty big indicators. How do they respond to other people's pain? Can they do hard things and do they share in your joy?
Leslie Johnston [00:46:41]:
Wow, that's really good. That's really good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:44]:
I like how you're like, that's gonna take some thinking, and then you pull out these three really great principles. I'm like, all right, well, that's awesome. I think. I would say if we're flipping the question around and one of the things that I didn't know to pray for or look for, but feel like God brought me anyways, and now I would tell people to pray for, this would be somebody who has a combination of these two words. One of them feels pretty obvious. The other one, I feel like I might need to justify a little bit a combination of. Of commitment and consistency. The commitment piece in that is someone who has staying power.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:30]:
Right. Because if life is kind of a series of really good times and really hard times, then obviously there's, like, the whole thing of marriage is that this is like a gospel kind of love in which it's for better or for worse and till death. It mirrors the heart of God, which means that it's a staying thing, right? You stay and you stick it out in good times, in hard times, and it's till the end. But I think there's a difference between, like, entering into a contract with. This is just the binding nature of the contract versus somebody whose heart is actually really wired towards staying in commitment. One of the things that always impressed me about Benji is that we fought all the time when we were dating because we're oil and water and, like, night and day different. And anytime there was a big blow up, my instinct is to, like, in a self deprecating way, be like, okay, so this is done. Like, this is the end of this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:23]:
And every time that I would do that, I was met with him coming back and being like, no, this isn't the end. This is a problem. And now we move forward, and now we repair. Right. And we stay. So I think the staying thing and the commitment thing, that's a huge attribute that I would look for, because I think that sees you through so much of life.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:48:43]:
Absolutely.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:44]:
And then the consistency piece, I don't think. I mean, a consistent perfection. A consistent cause. Like you said, you're showing up with whatever percentage you have to give and the other person chooses to meet you. But I think the consistency of, like, they are who they are the bulk of the time, it's not constantly changing, it's not a whirlwind. It's like they're consistent in whatever values that they've chosen, whatever faith, like that, whatever. I mean, obviously, like, the fact that he would love Jesus and that would be a consistent part of who he is. Not that it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:23]:
Not that you can't have ups and downs, but that the big things are the consistent things, and that is who you are and you're not easily thrown. I think those would be two things.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:35]:
I would say for me. Things that I've seen in my own dad that I have loved. Very sweet. Sweet. I love, this is gonna sound more superficial. I love that he's fun. Like, I love that he makes us laugh. And he did that for my mom growing up.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:53]:
Cause she was a stay at home mom, had four kids, four kids under four years old at one point, and life was just crazy for her. But I remember he always came home and he, similar to what you kinda said about Brandon is he would make us laugh. He'd make her laugh. And I remember one of my friends who's married, she said, and I think some of the key to her husband's name is Ben. She's like, the key to our marriage sometimes is that we make each other laugh and we have fun together. And I think that sounds really trite, but I feel like it really is a core. It's a core thing, because when life gets tough, it's like, sometimes laughter can really just help you get through a hard time. So I feel like that one would be important.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:38]:
I would also say, I think the commitment, for sure, but even more than commitment going, I think a lot of times we ask, like, okay, I want somebody who's gonna, like, spiritually lead or be a Christian and all that. But I think it even goes beyond, like, if they're a Christian, but also they have the ability to recognize that they need to work through things or they need to better themselves and actually seeing that happen in a person's life. So, like, similar to what you said, like, you and Brandon are going through couples therapy. I'm like, I know there's a lot of guys out there who'd be like, I'm not going to therapy. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't need it. I don't. Yes, big, massive red flag. But somebody who's able to go, I see something in me that I don't want to continue because that affects the other person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:31]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:31]:
So I'm going to better myself, whether that is going to therapy or having a mentor or having, like, is he quick to go, hey, I'm struggling with something. I'm going to go talk to somebody about it. I'm going to go to a friend. I'm going to spend time in God's word, like, more than just going to church on a Sunday. Like, are they actively pursuing growth? I guess to sum it all up, it's really good. I feel like those are things that that would mean a lot, not only in just like a partnership of a marriage, but also in fatherhood. I feel like those things. I've always heard that kids will go more the direction of the dad when it comes to their spiritual life and to, it was something else, but now I'm forgetting it.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:17]:
But I heard that, yeah, they'll go the direction. So if either parent is like, we don't have to go. You don't really need to be involved in your youth group or church or whatever, kids will most likely kind of slide towards that parent. And so I think having someone you're like, I trust that they're going to lead, like, in their own relationship with God and themselves. That that is something that our kids can follow.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:41]:
Timothy Keller says this. I think it kind of captures what you're saying really well. He has a quote that says the best christians are chief repenters, which is funny because there is no best christian. I think we're all worst christians, right? But his idea is that the best kinds of christians are the ones that are constantly repenting. Meaning, like, I'm seeing something either away, I'm going, or something that's in me that needs to be, like, submitted and obeyed to the expectation and standard of Christ. So they're just constantly turning around. And I love that principle. Like, find somebody who is quick and able to see I need help, or blessed are the poor in spirit.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:23]:
Blessed are those who know how much they're in need of God or sanctification, salvation. And I think that's a really cool principle that I probably wouldn't have thought. Thought of is who are the people? Who is the person that can see their area of need for God? And they're quick to see it and to seek help for it. That's huge. Cause that's all. That's life, right? Like you said, there's no standard of perfection that's achievable. It's all repair. So are people quick to see the repair opportunities, and are they quick to take them? That's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:54]:
Yeah.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:53:54]:
Do they have a growth mindset? As you were talking, I was thinking, like, I think that would be a non negotiable for me, too. Not just. I mean, in our wedding vows, I kind of forgot about it for a minute until you shared, but I had this fear when I was 21 of promising to be together for who we were at 21. And so we wrote into our wedding vows a promise to learn how to love one another for the rest of our lives. That's cool, because we were aware at 21 that we were probably gonna be, I don't know, ten to 15 different versions of ourselves if we spent the rest of our lives together.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:28]:
Totally.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:54:29]:
And the only way that ends well is to continue learning how to love one another more fully. And now that we have Callum, that feels even more important that, you know, with God. God is teaching us how to love Callum more fully. And hopefully Callum experiences both of us as parents who model repair and growth for him so that all of a sudden, making a mistake isn't fatal, and so that he realizes that, you know, he can be humble and curious and repent. When you were saying repentance, what came to mind for me is, I'm forgetting the reference because I'm horrible with references, but it talks about it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance. And I think if you have a partner with a growth mindset, then perhaps your child gets to witness their parents kindness towards one another, being a part of what creates an environment where they can repent to one another and where repair happens. And then they feel more open and willing to say, hey, dad, mom, I messed up.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:39]:
Yes.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:55:39]:
Because they know they're going to be met with kindness, support, and repair.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:43]:
It's really, really good.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:55:44]:
And so having a partner that does that feels, like, absolutely necessary. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:49]:
Really good.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:50]:
That kindness piece is such a vital thing, I think. Especially when you hit hard times.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:55]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:56]:
I mean, having a baby, just, you know, turbulent times, that can really rock you. Casey, this has been so, so good. Do you have any last minute for maybe new moms, old moms, immature moms? What would be something you would encourage somebody with who's kind of going, I'm in the thick of it right now, maybe struggling with, you know. Yeah. The work stuff, the marriage, the baby. Just juggling everything right now. What would be your encouragement to them?
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:56:26]:
Yeah, I think the first thought that comes to mind for me is if a mama is feeling concerned or worried, that is because they care. And so for any mommas listening out there, you love your children wholeheartedly. You're doing a great job, and you're worried and concerned because you care. And that is a good thing. And then secondly, there's a chapter in the Bible, Isaiah 49. I'm forgetting the exact verse, but it's something that's been really encouraging to me recently. In moments where I worry, like, is my love failing for Callum? Did I show up with enough empathy? Did I show up quick enough? Did I meet his cry fast enough? Did I guess his needs right? Is he feeling attuned and safe with me? Because all of those worries pop up. And this verse talks about God's faithfulness to God's people, because the people of Israel are saying, like, have you forgot us? Have you left us? And God responds saying, can a mother forget their child who's nursing? Can a mother forget the child who was in their womb? Can a mother not show love and compassion to that child? I could never forget you.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:57:47]:
And the reason that brings me comfort is, on the one hand, I don't think we talk about the maternal aspects of God enough, and that's beautiful. But secondly, it brings me so much comfort to know that the love I feel for Callum when I look down at him and he's nursing and he's smiling, it's like, exponential. I love him so much. I do anything for him. And when I read that verse, I'm reminded that God loves me even more than that. More than I could possibly imagine. And God loves Callum even more than that. My greatest experience of love, when I look at my son who is nursing, God loves both of us even more.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:58:32]:
Wow. And that is really sustaining for me, you know? Cause there will be moments where. Sure. There will be gaps to my love I will need to repair. And I'm trusting and I'm hoping and I'm praying that God will fill in the gaps. And I hope that for anyone who's listening, it's really beautiful.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:51]:
That's really good, Casey. Thank you so much. Actually, I have one more question. I have one more question, and we can do it succinct. I just. I just.
Dr. Casey Shortt [00:58:58]:
Sorry, I'm not great at being succinct, but I will try.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:00]:
No, you're so.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:01]:
No, no, we thorough. And the goal was not just a one time Casey visit. The goal is, like, many Casey visits. So it's all good. Yes, but you alluded to this earlier, and I feel like this tug that we shouldn't miss out on the moment for you to encourage people with this. But you were talking about loss earlier, the loss and grief of not just previous relationship with Brandon, the way that it was, but also there's the loss of autonomy, there's the loss of. I used to do my career in this way, and I spent ten years focusing on building this thing that's very important, like your practice and your work. And one of the fears that I have, and I'm sure other people have it, is just the fear of losing the thing that you love.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:47]:
And while you're gaining a thing that you love, the calum, you're also losing. Not losing your practice or your purpose in the way that you. It's different. It's changing. So what do you say to the people that are. They're a little hesitant or scared to trust God with the fact that there's lots of change coming when it comes to becoming a mom and losing a little part of maybe yourself, or losing it in the way that you once had it. Does that question make sense?
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:00:20]:
It does. It does. And I think the starting point is, is kindness and understanding towards yourself. I wouldn't expect any of us to go through a major life transition and then to turn around and be like, I have found balance. I found inner peace. I can mother and work my job and be a wife and a friend and a creative, and I've got it all figured out. I don't think anyone does. And I think that's no matter what stage you are, it kind of goes back to having that growth mindset.
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:00:53]:
So, you know, for anyone out there who is listening and is trying to figure out, how do I honor all the pieces of me? If I love to work and I love to be a mother, how do I do both, maybe it feels hard, because it is hard, and you will figure it out one step at a time. And a part of that might be trial and error or experimenting. I'm still experimenting. And I think the other piece is that love, loss, and longing are not separate from one another. They really all point us towards our values, which can be expressed in different ways in different seasons. Not to say that you won't still feel the loss, but most of the time, underneath every loss is a longing. It's tapping into something that really matters to us in life. And so, for example, for me, there has been some loss in what I am able to do in my career right now.
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:01:49]:
Before I was pregnant, I had all these dreams of maybe hiring a few people building out the practice a little bit more. And then I got pregnant and realized, for me, I don't have the capacity to do that right now because I'm not limitless. And there was a huge loss there. Underneath that loss was the longing for creativity, was the longing for meaning, was the longing for contribution and helping others. And although I can't build the business more right now, I can still work towards creativity and contributing and helping others. I can do that with my baby, Calum. I can do that with my friends, and I can do that with my current clients. And there's value to the loss because it teaches me about what's most important.
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:02:41]:
There's also value to the loss because I can also bookmark in my mind, I might not do it now, but I can do it later. And so I don't say that to say the pain will go away from anyone who's having to navigate loss right now more to encourage you to explore your loss, see what might be underneath it, so that you can honor wise it's there. While you also savor the love and the joy. You can do both. Yeah, it's really good.
Leslie Johnston [01:03:10]:
It's also so good.
Morgan May Treuil [01:03:12]:
Casey, thank you.
Leslie Johnston [01:03:13]:
Yes. Thanks for coming on. And we could bring you on again soon and do a whole thing, even just about what you do for work and how people can learn just to be mentally spiritual, all that healthy. I think that would be so, so cool to have you back on. So thank you for coming. Thank you for taking a little break from Callum and joining us for about an hour. So thank you, Casey, we love you so much, and we hope one day you get to live near the beach as long as it's still near us.
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:03:43]:
Thank you. I'm hoping that's prophetic. I will receive that from you.
Leslie Johnston [01:03:48]:
Maybe, like, California will just, like, get some weird divide and a beach will, like, kind of come through here. We're not letting you leave.
Morgan May Treuil [01:03:54]:
I'm praying for a natural disaster of some kind of split.
Leslie Johnston [01:03:57]:
The earth, earth, some sort of California splitting. I think some people wanted that, but.
Dr. Casey Shortt [01:04:01]:
For some magic, more for government. Just a little magic. And I love you guys. Thank you for having me.
Leslie Johnston [01:04:07]:
I love you so much. Thanks for sharing all your wisdom, and we hope you guys enjoy this episode and we will see you next time.