Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
No, you can't see my toes, but. Hey, welcome.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:02]:
Welcome, Jake.
Jake Messner [00:00:03]:
Back to me, guys.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:04]:
Messner. Drumroll, please, for our eligible bachelor, Jacob. Signor Messner, what's your second name? What's your middle name?
Jake Messner [00:00:13]:
William.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:14]:
I didn't do that. So it's Jacob William Messner.
Jake Messner [00:00:18]:
Jacob William Messner.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:19]:
Messner is a perfect last name for you.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:21]:
Why are you saying mess?
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:23]:
Well, sorry, before we go any. Yeah. So before we go any further, Leslie, you need to tell your first Jake Messner memory. Oh, general. General. Like, how far does your and Jake's relationship go back to yours?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:37]:
Yeah, I'm thinking, like, recently.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:38]:
No, your first.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:39]:
So imagine this. Catalina Island, 2000. Something. I arrive at camp. I'm a camp counselor.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:50]:
For those who don't know Catalina island. There's a christian camp. There's a christian camp in southern California.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:55]:
DBS. It was taken down in the worst way possible, and it'll never be the same. CB's is our. What's that ancient kingdom. What's that thing that guys think about? Think about all the time? Roman empire. That's our roman empire.
Jake Messner [00:01:09]:
That is our roman empire.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:10]:
Do you think about the roman empire often?
Jake Messner [00:01:11]:
Not the Roman Empire. I think about campus by the sea a lot.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:14]:
Yeah. But I was. I was Jake Messner's camp counselor in fifth grade, and I will tell you that before, man, Jake came to camp that weekend, every weekend, we'd have like, hey, here's who's coming to camp, blah, blah, blah. And I remember them sitting us down.
Jake Messner [00:01:33]:
Being like, before she said, I promise they loved me.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:36]:
They did. They did.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:37]:
But what did they say?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:37]:
It was a little bit of this. Like, hey, guys, Jake's coming to camp.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:41]:
So everybody gird your brakes.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:46]:
But you know what? I always loved Jake at camp. Like, he was hilarious. So fun. He's got. He's a triplet. And so that was a fun. Like, all three of them. And they were hilarious and fun.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:56]:
I always thought they were just great.
Jake Messner [00:01:58]:
I don't remember how you did not care for rules, which is probably why.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:00]:
They gave you guys. They still hold us to, like, the rule. We did this game with the watermelon.
Jake Messner [00:02:06]:
Oh, my gosh.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:07]:
And Jake, to this day, brings. I don't even remember this, but he brings up the fact that I held him to a standard for rules because he was trying to cheat.
Jake Messner [00:02:15]:
It wasn't us. Here's the problem. We four teams, everyone's trying to win this relay. Our team is absolutely blowing everyone out of the water. Out of the water. We win by 20 minutes. And it ruins their whole program when someone wins by that much. Unprecedented.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:30]:
But now. Now, as a youth pastor, you kind of know that, though, right?
Jake Messner [00:02:32]:
Don't care. You got to give the kids the win. We dominated. Leslie's are Leslie's, like, one of the referees there. So in order to, like, tighten up the race, make it more dramatic in, like, a big build up, they absolutely come up with new b's rules to slow us down. And we were on a hot streak, and I was. I don't. I think I was screaming at her at five, like, fifth.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:54]:
Oh, my gosh.
Jake Messner [00:02:55]:
Whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:55]:
Grade. I was great.
Jake Messner [00:02:56]:
No, I had to be in freshman in high school. At that point, I was probably a freshman.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:59]:
I mean, I was also your fifth grader. I think it was, like, multiple times. So my sister was your leader. I was your leader. And every now, never did I think that one day we'd be working together.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:08]:
Or be friends or in the same friend group. The way I would describe you is that you come crashing into our lives, and we are so much better for it, and we have so much fun.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:21]:
We actually do think Jake is one of, like, the funniest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:23]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:24]:
Funnest, but wise people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:26]:
Great friend. Love the Lord. Genuinely. Yeah, very kind. Very honest. Very honest. Very supportive.
Jake Messner [00:03:34]:
Too honest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:35]:
Too honest.
Jake Messner [00:03:37]:
Honest to a fault. That's a good way of putting it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:38]:
Also servant hearted. There's nothing you could ask Jake to do that he won't, like, stop and do for you.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:44]:
Yeah, that's true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:45]:
So thank you. Literally, like, he helped me skim coat.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:48]:
My walls in my house.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:49]:
That is really sweet.
Jake Messner [00:03:50]:
Yeah. I just asked myself, you know, what would Morgan do and do the opposite, you know?
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:56]:
That's hilarious. Okay, Jake, you did help me.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:58]:
You did help me with my walls. Except every five second, he's like, man, my wall looks so much better.
Jake Messner [00:04:04]:
Hold up. Four walls in your house.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:06]:
So it comes at a cost.
Jake Messner [00:04:07]:
Four people came into the wall. Four people came into the wall. Four walls. When you walk into your room, which wall looks the best?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:14]:
Which one has the most holes in it? Which one looks kind of.
Jake Messner [00:04:17]:
Which one looks the best? Don't lie on the podcast either. Don't lie on the podcast. I will say, she's already told me, guys, it's been mine. I did use a enormous amount of spackle.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:26]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:04:27]:
Is that what it's called?
Leslie Johnston [00:04:27]:
You taught me all the. Well, you told me that. The lingo. Anyways, we are excited to have you on the podcast. And, single ladies, this episode is for you. We're diving deep into the questions that you have about christian guys. And Jake gets to be the subject of all of our.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:44]:
And part of the reason why we're doing this, too, Jake, just for you to know, which we already pitched this idea to you say Jake's a very safe place. Um, Jake is currently the only friend, the only person in my husband and mine's life that we will actively fight in front of. Jake is the only person that we will fight in front of. There's just something about him that just feels really safe, really honest. Not going to judge you. He rebounds really quickly. You might feel very elastic.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:08]:
He rebounds.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:09]:
And so what.
Jake Messner [00:05:10]:
That's what. That's what that's called. Elasticity, baby.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:13]:
Elasticity. So, here's. So here's the reason why we wanted to do this. Leslie and I can speak from single girls perspectives. As a Christian single girl, how do you date? What are you looking for? Good practices for dating. All of those things. The mystery to the young. Not just young.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:31]:
The single christian girl mind. The biggest mystery to the single christian girl mind that is dating is, what the heck are single christian guys thinking and doing about dating? What is their process? What things do we not know? Are there some hidden trap doors that we're unaware of? It just feels like the male brain in this situation is very elusive to us.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:54]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:54]:
And so we wanted to bring you on to talk about this from a young, male, christian, single guy dating perspective. What is going on, and how can this help a girl's perspective to know what's going on?
Leslie Johnston [00:06:07]:
That's right.
Jake Messner [00:06:08]:
I'll try my best. I'll try my best here. Disclaimer. I'm speaking for Jake Messner here, so.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:14]:
Okay, now, on behalf of all men.
Jake Messner [00:06:16]:
There may be some guy that you're staring at in church that thinks radically different than me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:20]:
That's true. Not everybody is the same. Good disclaimer.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:22]:
Yes. Okay. But before we start, we have to do our thing that we always do, which is our unpopular opinion, and we told you to bring one. I don't know what it is. And to be honest, I'm kind of nervous that we're gonna have to cut it out and restart.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:35]:
But, yes, I vetted it because I was worried that we would have to cut it out. So lefse doesn't know, but I do know to approve.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:41]:
Okay. What is Jake Messner's unpopular opinion?
Jake Messner [00:06:43]:
My unpopular opinion. And this can be a little bit aggressive, but I would just say no one cares. I do not want to open Instagram and have you write a long. What is it? A comment. No caption. Long Instagram captions. Get them out of here. The ones that say December 2024 with ten pics.
Jake Messner [00:07:02]:
Great. I feel updated. I feel like I get to know you. I feel. And I can scroll into the next. I'm not opening the app to read a paragraph, a deep, personable essay on what's everything that's going on in your emotional state.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:13]:
I love you so much.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:14]:
Why do you feel that way? Is it, like, makes you uncomfortable or something?
Jake Messner [00:07:17]:
I'm not on Instagram to read. Are you whipping out Instagram to be like, man, you know what I want to do right now? Connect my brain and, like, really have.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:25]:
So what do you open Instagram for?
Jake Messner [00:07:27]:
A dead brain scroll. I'm on a dead brain scroll. I'm like, okay, all right. Sweet. Updated. I feel like I know you know what's going on. I'm there to disconnect.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:37]:
Yeah, I could see that.
Jake Messner [00:07:38]:
I'm there to disconnect. Yeah, I don't want to scroll on. And if I have to hit more, and then it goes, I'm like, if.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:45]:
I have to, like, forget this. What about people then that talk on their stories? What's your thoughts on that?
Jake Messner [00:07:52]:
Yeah, it'll never be me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:55]:
Do you watch them?
Jake Messner [00:07:57]:
If you got a good hook, give.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:00]:
Us an example of a good hook.
Jake Messner [00:08:02]:
There's no way that would be, like, a good one. If someone starts off with that or.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:07]:
Be like, Jake's like, I'm hooked.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:10]:
That's good. Do you like when people post food content on their instagram?
Jake Messner [00:08:15]:
It depends on where I'm at. If I'm at home and it's past 09:00 and people are posting and I'm looking at a bunch of delicious food, nah, it's too tempting to get up and go to the kitchen. Makes me hungry. But if I'm like, it's lunchtime. I'm looking for some lunch inspo. Like, I'm starting to get hungry, and I'm like, yes, that looks good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:31]:
Yes, that looks good. All right.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:33]:
What do you think about girls posting selfies or pictures of just themselves?
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:40]:
This is a good question. This is a great question.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:43]:
This will segue us into some of our questions that we have for you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:46]:
Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:47]:
What does that give off?
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:48]:
Now, we're not saying that people shouldn't do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:50]:
No, no, no.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:51]:
Because no girl should change anything for a guy to like them.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:54]:
Oh, yeah. Let's preface this episode with this, bro.
Jake Messner [00:08:57]:
Stop trying to be someone else. Be you.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:59]:
This is not your episode of, like, let's ask guys what they want girls to be like. This is not that we're trying to give you an insight into maybe what Jake Mester and some other guys think of, because some of the stuff, at least that I know when. When I was single, that I would do, I thought maybe they would like that, and I was doing it for them. And they're like, I don't even like that. Oh, awesome.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:22]:
Now I know the male dating brain to dispel insecurity, to give you a little bit of an insight into another person's way of thinking. So that's what this is a common.
Jake Messner [00:09:31]:
Theme here with me, too. You'll see. Is like, beat. Be you, bro. Be you, sis. Hey, sis. Be you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:35]:
Hey, sis.
Jake Messner [00:09:36]:
Don't try and be someone else. Be you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:38]:
So when a girl posts self, like.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:40]:
Let me give you an example. You open up a girl's profile, and it is all photos of just her. What are your first thoughts, man?
Jake Messner [00:09:48]:
This girl loves her some her. I'm like, this girl loves her some. Her. I don't know. I think. I think. But then you open, like, if you're ever. And I'm sure you guys have done this, you're like, oh, my gosh, I saw this cute guy today, and you guys, I know are Instagram professionals.
Jake Messner [00:10:03]:
You'll find a guy you met in a supermarket online.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:05]:
Leslie will. Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:06]:
He's fantastic.
Jake Messner [00:10:07]:
You guys are basically. And you open his page and there's no photos of him. You're like, what are we talking about?
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:12]:
Okay. Yes. So when. When Leslie was first recommending Benji to me, I was like, well, what's his Instagram handle? And she's like, don't look at him on Instagram. Literally, there's one picture of him on his entire feed, doesn't post anymore. One picture of him, and it's him in a wedding party. And he has stretched himself out to be this, like, very tall, slender man.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:34]:
Slender man as a joke.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:35]:
And I'm like, this is so alarming.
Jake Messner [00:10:36]:
You're saying he edited.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:37]:
He edited the photo to make himself look extremely tall, so there was no way of knowing.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:42]:
Benji's Instagram looks like he hasn't been on Instagram in, like, ten years. Yes, but I know he is a faithful instagrammer. He is like, I post something first, like Benji, but has no content. Morgan's not a trace on his Instagram.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:58]:
Honestly, no one knows that he's married on Instagram. Nobody knows. There's no. He's not on it. So I do get that there's something about, like, the no faces. That's a little sketchy.
Jake Messner [00:11:08]:
Yeah. You don't want to go on and be like, who are you? You're.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:10]:
Yes, yes.
Jake Messner [00:11:11]:
I don't know. Unless you like the mystery. Not me. Not a big mystery.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:14]:
Guys don't like mystery.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:15]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:11:15]:
Yeah. Like, I don't want to be like, okay, who. There's some nature here. A lot of nature, and that's it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:21]:
What does that give?
Jake Messner [00:11:23]:
You don't like your face.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:30]:
That's funny.
Jake Messner [00:11:31]:
You don't like your face.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:32]:
Yeah, true. But what if you like your face too much? Then maybe that's like, every single photo is just your face.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:38]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:11:38]:
Yeah, I'm gonna get a life, dude.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:40]:
Or like, yeah. Do you haven't. Do you have any friends if they're not ever on your instagram?
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:45]:
Right, right. Which is crazy, that, like, which.
Jake Messner [00:11:47]:
We shouldn't be saying this. I should check my instagram.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:49]:
We shouldn't have to, like, your instagram doesn't look good either.
Jake Messner [00:11:52]:
Like, we shouldn't have to be for, like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:55]:
We do. That's the unfortunate part of today, dude.
Jake Messner [00:11:59]:
It's a reflection of your personality. I have not posted on Instagram in probably, like, two years, I think. My bio says I try and post once a year. I don't post.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:05]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:12:06]:
And then I have a bunch of cringe photos from high school that my. I promise my best friends, they're like, you can't delete those. You're gonna look.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:14]:
I like that. I think your instagram reflects a lot about you and a lot of what you value and you do value, like, humorous and relationships. And that shows on your instagram.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:23]:
Yes, agreed. Okay, before we get. Wait, where were you gonna ask?
Leslie Johnston [00:12:27]:
No, you go.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:27]:
No, what were you gonna ask?
Leslie Johnston [00:12:28]:
I was gonna ask another question.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:29]:
Okay, well, before. Before you get to the question. So any other question, can you give us, like, a 62nd life? Like, who are you? What do you do? Where do you come from?
Jake Messner [00:12:37]:
Folks? Yeah. All right, so born and raised down in southern California. I grew up. I went to college for a good five days. Dropped out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:49]:
Then I went every girl's dream to dream.
Jake Messner [00:12:52]:
Went to EMT school, paramedic school, worked on an ambulance, left. Went and worked at a motorcycle shop. Crashed my motorcycle. Got a job at Bayside, Orange county as a youth pastor. Had no idea what I was doing. Then they told me to go to Granite Bay. Then they moved me up to Granite Bay two years ago. That's all like you wanted.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:08]:
So you're a youth pastor?
Jake Messner [00:13:09]:
I'm a youth pastor at Granite Bay. I'm 25.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:14]:
Tell us about your mom.
Jake Messner [00:13:15]:
The absolute goat. Ma, I hope you're listening to this. I almost wanted. I told my. I always wanted to open this up with a facetime. Be like, mom, look at me. I made it because she is a literal queen. She loves the Lord like no one I've ever met.
Jake Messner [00:13:27]:
She loves my husband, she loves my dad. She loves my dad, her husband. Really, really well. She raised me and my older sister, Kaylee. We weren't easy kid. I was not an easy kid to raise a. And yeah, she's just the matriarch of the family.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:40]:
She's amazing.
Jake Messner [00:13:41]:
Dog.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:41]:
Talking triplets and lies.
Jake Messner [00:13:44]:
Any woman that raises triplets, dog.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:47]:
So you're a triplet?
Jake Messner [00:13:48]:
I am a triplet.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:49]:
Two sisters. Two triplet sisters plus, sorry, boy, girl.
Jake Messner [00:13:53]:
Two boys and a girl in the trio.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:55]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:13:56]:
Older sister Kayleigh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:57]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:58]:
So you stand like, really close when you're talking to people. And I realize, like, if you're talking to Jake, you look down and your feet are touching each other's feet. Because he grew up thinking that he couldn't get a word in edgewise because of all of the triplets. So he has to get right next to you to talk to you.
Jake Messner [00:14:14]:
I'm like, you got to hear me. It was a fight at the dinner table, man.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:17]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:14:18]:
Whoever speaks the loudest or gets the closest to an ear is gonna win.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:21]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:14:22]:
You'll see me, like, I'll be at dinner. I'll be like crawling over chairs.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:25]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:14:25]:
Can you hear me?
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:26]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:27]:
One of my favorite things about Jake is that we have a group of girls who all watch the bachelor, golden bachelor, all that stuff. And you know who's always there?
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:36]:
Jake.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:36]:
Jake's always there for a good time. He's learning. Joey, actually.
Jake Messner [00:14:40]:
Yeah, Joey's dragged there.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:41]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:14:41]:
And I respect it, cuz I love, you know, the. The extra male presence in the room. Don't forget your dad also.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:47]:
He loves the leader of this show.
Jake Messner [00:14:51]:
Listen, the show is interesting. It does make you want to absolutely cringe out of your mind.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:55]:
Yeah, yeah.
Jake Messner [00:14:56]:
The golden Bachelor, though. It's just a sweet show.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:59]:
It's sweet.
Jake Messner [00:14:59]:
It's awesome sending people home. I feel like I.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:03]:
This is heartbreaking.
Jake Messner [00:15:03]:
I know it's heartbreaking. It's like, wow, you're 60, you finally found some friends. You're loving life. You're living in the bedroom with your boys. Go home.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:10]:
No rose, go home.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:11]:
No rows. I know. It's devastating.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:13]:
Okay, Jake.
Jake Messner [00:15:13]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:14]:
Give us your worst date story. Let's kick this off. Just wrong date, man.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:22]:
There's so many to choose from.
Jake Messner [00:15:23]:
I would just like to. I'd like to preface. Man, you're gonna get a mix of, like, high school Jake, which was a different person than.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:29]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:15:30]:
Now, Jake, that's fine. There may be some questionable things that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:33]:
Have happened, questionable accidents in my dating.
Jake Messner [00:15:34]:
Life across the span of my relationship with the Lord. You know what I mean?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:38]:
Yes, yes.
Jake Messner [00:15:39]:
But I remember young. You know, I think I was 18 or 19. This might have been right after I dropped out of college, and there was this girl. We went. We were friends. We talk all the time, like, really close friends. And I liked her. I thought she was really cute.
Jake Messner [00:15:53]:
Now, she was five years older than me.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:55]:
Whoa.
Jake Messner [00:15:57]:
But I'm like, and you're in high school? No, no, he's 18.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:00]:
Oh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:00]:
He just started out in college.
Jake Messner [00:16:01]:
Now, at that time, I'm just thinking to myself, man, I just want to hang out with her. I just want to hang out with her. Cause she's great. And so we had ended up planning, like, a. Like, a overnight camping trip that always ends well at San Onofre. We were gonna go first.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:19]:
Red flag.
Jake Messner [00:16:21]:
But as friends. Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:23]:
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:23]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:16:24]:
Ish. I never said his friends. It was kind of, like, in my mind, it's like, kind of dating this kind of romantic.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:29]:
We're going disclaimer, girls have a guy asks you on a first date, and it's an overnight date, or any time it's an overnight date when you're not married.
Jake Messner [00:16:36]:
It wasn't that. Those, like, we'd always talk, we should go camping. We should go camping.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:40]:
It wasn't overnight, or it was.
Jake Messner [00:16:41]:
It was, but it wasn't like, hey, see, I'd like you on a date. Let's go camping.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:46]:
Okay, that's not always. It's always.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:50]:
Camping on a first day.
Jake Messner [00:16:51]:
So, yeah, we go camping, and I. I bring all my surfboards. I load down my subaru. We got all the firewood, the camping gear. We go. It was a phenomenal trip. I'm cooking steak and shrimp every night. Like, I brought.
Jake Messner [00:17:00]:
I brought out the goods, doc, on a camping trip, I have photos on my phone of, like, man, here's our steak and shrimp and our tent in the ocean. Really romantic. Great conversation the whole time. And I remember being like, how is this girl not gonna date me after this? And on the drive home, she's like, you know, again, I had been. Yeah, I thought this was it. I thought, like, you know, and then it was like, you are such a great friend to me on the drive home, I don't know how it got brought up, but I remember driving home and we were friends, and she had brought up this guy from where she was living. Like, brought up on the drive home, she's like, as we were just chatting to catch up, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, what's going on out where you're at? And she's like, oh, there's this cute guy that asked me out. She's like, what do you think I should say?
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:49]:
I'm like, oh, wait, what were we just doing, Laura?
Jake Messner [00:17:52]:
I'm like, oh, yeah, go on a date with him. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, she's, she's like, honestly, you're a great friend, and I can't wait for you to meet this guy. And I'm like, I want to die.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:02]:
Yeah. Here's the receipts, because I'd like you to pay for half the steaks, half the shrimp.
Jake Messner [00:18:06]:
When you're 18, you're buying steak and shrimp and breakfast and everything that sucked. I put so much. So, okay, wait.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:12]:
When she asked you, what do you think? Do you think she was, like, digging a little bit to see if you'd be like, no, date me?
Jake Messner [00:18:18]:
100%. 100%. At that point, she was like, hey, kid, take a stand for something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:23]:
Fight for something.
Jake Messner [00:18:24]:
And I was in a position at that age where it's like, hey, I do like you, and I want to date you. I don't want to date you right now. I'm just going to keep you, like, hold you close enough.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:35]:
Wait, you were that way.
Jake Messner [00:18:36]:
That was me at 18.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:39]:
Okay, so let's dissect this for a second.
Jake Messner [00:18:43]:
I do recognize the red flags here.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:45]:
Before we all die, we're not coming at you. I'm not coming at you. Actually. I'm saying, us girls, maybe this is, like, a good lesson in, like, don't ask the question in a weird, roundabout way. Cause you might not actually get the answer that you want. Like, the truthful answer. Cause if she were to say, hey, Jake, I actually am kinda interested in you, but I don't know how you feel. There's another guy who asked me out.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:08]:
Do you think that I should say yes to him, or is there something here?
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:11]:
Right?
Leslie Johnston [00:19:12]:
Instead, she's like, what do you think?
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:14]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:14]:
And it's like, kind of around now, I don't know her. So this could not be her way.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:17]:
Of thinking, which they're probably scared you off a little bit.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:20]:
It's like when you play games with guys, sometimes it bites you in the butt.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:23]:
So. Okay. So let's ask that question. Let's ask that question. Is there an art? It does feel like, again, this is not creating stereotypes because lots of guys are different, lots of girls are different from each other. But it does feel like sometimes a classic girl reaction to wanting to find out information from a guy, wanting to clarify something, or wanting to address conflict is to try to be a little bit more sneaky, indirect with communication. What do guys think about that? Like, is the indirect communication method working, or is it. Should we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:59]:
How should we lead? If we're. If a girl's trying to, like, figure out what this is, how should she proceed?
Jake Messner [00:20:04]:
You're saying, like, two people are friends. She's trying to figure out, does a guy like me?
Leslie Johnston [00:20:07]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:07]:
How should she communicate that question to you?
Jake Messner [00:20:10]:
What? The question of, like, hey, do you like me?
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:12]:
Right?
Jake Messner [00:20:17]:
Can you. I don't.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:18]:
Wait, let's back up one, because I think there's a question before this one. Do you think that if a guy likes you, he will tell you, or is, or is there ever a scenario where you should actually go and tell the guy you like them because maybe they're, like, nervous or scared? Or do you think, no, you know what? Nine times out of ten, the guy will have told you or have made it very clear that he likes you.
Jake Messner [00:20:43]:
I think he'll make it clear. But at the end, like, wouldn't you want to date a guy that's going to come up to me? Come up to you and be like, hey, I like you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:49]:
Right?
Jake Messner [00:20:49]:
Isn't that the type of guy that you want?
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:51]:
Right?
Jake Messner [00:20:52]:
Like, my whole thing is like, man, if a guy really likes you, one. If he's not going to take the jump, don't. Like, don't go up to him and be like, hey, I like you. Make him make the first move.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:02]:
Right?
Jake Messner [00:21:03]:
My thing, like, it's almost like, hey, bro, have, like, have some courage, right? Shoot the shot. I cannot see. Like, I'm just thinking to me, if a girl came up to me and was like, hey, I really like you, I can't see that ending well for her.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:18]:
Really?
Jake Messner [00:21:18]:
No, I can't see me being like, well, you know what?
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:21]:
That's because you're saying if you liked her, you would have already done that.
Jake Messner [00:21:27]:
Yeah, probably.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:28]:
Okay, that's fair.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:30]:
What about.
Jake Messner [00:21:30]:
And if I wouldn't have done that, I would have made it clear.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:33]:
How. How does a guy make it clear that he likes you?
Jake Messner [00:21:36]:
Well, if you know me, you know, there's just a wildly different person. I would say, like, it's the. It's almost, like, quality. Like, I'm trying to spend time with you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:46]:
He's trying to be with you.
Jake Messner [00:21:47]:
Yeah. I'm trying to spend time with you. I'm inviting you places. I'm saying, hey, we're going out after church. We're doing this. You should come. I'm inviting you places. Intentional time texting.
Jake Messner [00:21:56]:
If you know me, my regular, I don't text. Like, that's my. My regular. If I'm, like, really into someone and my phone dings, and I look at it and it's like, man, I really, really like this girl, like, a lot. I'm responding.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:10]:
Okay, this is a great question.
Jake Messner [00:22:14]:
Everyone else is getting normal.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:15]:
Jake, the people, do you think most guys, they will respond to your text if they like you? Because there's a lot of guys who claim they're bad texters. Do you think that's a cop out, or do you think that they genuinely might just be bad at texting?
Jake Messner [00:22:29]:
I do, obviously.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:30]:
Unless they're, like, a er doctor and they don't have their phone on them.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:33]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:22:33]:
Exceptions to the rule, I would say. I would say every single guy, for the most part, always has their phone on them and always sees the text coming in. I can think of the differences in my life where it's like, man, I really, really like this girl. I'm responding to her text.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:50]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:22:51]:
I can also see I've done the thing where it's like, oh, I'm not sure where I stand.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:55]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:22:56]:
I'm. I'm not responding right away. Like, I'm. I'm not dropping everything to respond to this text. And I have thrown out that I'm a bad texter.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:03]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:04]:
When it almost buys me, like, when it buys you time because you're not sure if you're interested.
Jake Messner [00:23:08]:
Yeah, I feel like it does.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:09]:
Okay. So I think that. I think being a bad texter is a cop out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:14]:
It's a cop out. It's a buying time.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:15]:
It's buying time.
Jake Messner [00:23:16]:
Absolutely. I would agree with you.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:18]:
Yes. I think it's buying time. This is what we want to get down to the bottom of. I think that's buying time. But I also think that especially at the beginning of relationship, I think later in a relationship, you get, like, if you're in, like, a steady relationship, I don't think, like, maybe every text you get, you're like, oh, I have to respond right away.
Jake Messner [00:23:34]:
Yeah, absolutely not.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:35]:
But I also think there's a game that people play where if they're a bad texter, then you all of a sudden become a bad text.
Jake Messner [00:23:41]:
Absolutely not. I'm never like, I'm never gonna do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:44]:
Oh, no, no. It just happens.
Jake Messner [00:23:46]:
Oh, you think the girls will be like, he waited 3 hours to respond to. That's so funny.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:51]:
They do.
Jake Messner [00:23:51]:
And they talk about high school kids that I talked to or do that constantly. I'm like, guys, this is the stupidest thing ever.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:56]:
Yes. So maybe if you're sitting there and you're like, oh, yeah, I've been doing that. Be the first to text back right away. Like, text back right away and see if they do it back. Cause maybe you both are thinking the other person's a bad texter, and so they may not be into me. So I'm gonna play the game of waiting. I don't know. Not that joy has to be on your phone.
Jake Messner [00:24:13]:
I also am a phone caller. So, like, there's times where it's like, instead of texting, you're gonna call. Yeah. I'll just shoot you a call. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:19]:
You're saying at baseline, girls, girls, asking the question, how do I know if this guy likes me? You will know because he will be. He will be trying to see you, and he will be communicating with you in some capacity. Like, you will know if he likes you. There's no shot that a guy likes you, but he's just, like, not. He's being kind of, like, flaky or wishy washy.
Jake Messner [00:24:38]:
Yeah. Y'all worked in an office together when there was a girl in your office that I liked.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:42]:
Mm hmm.
Jake Messner [00:24:43]:
Do you remember that? How many times did I come by your office today?
Leslie Johnston [00:24:46]:
A lot. Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:24:47]:
How many times did I just try and be in the room? Or like, oh, hey, guys, I need to. Can I take this paper clip?
Leslie Johnston [00:24:53]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:24:53]:
I need that. I'm like, I feel like, yeah, you should know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:57]:
So. So, like, on a spiritual sense, like, let's take it there for just a second. I think one of the things we're clarifying is we spend a lot of time in the games of, like, does he or doesn't he? Does she or doesn't she? When one of the things that you're probably looking for in a. In a future spouse, someone that don't play the games, who doesn't play the.
Jake Messner [00:25:18]:
Games, does not play the game.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:18]:
So if you find yourself in a spot where you're like, I just feel like we're playing games, maybe there is, like, an art form to, like, I'm gonna take a step back from this to see one of two things. Does. Does the rubber meet the road. And do they actually step up? If I take a step back, or I'm gonna take a step back, because I deserve somebody who's gonna be more straight up with me.
Jake Messner [00:25:36]:
Yes. Shout out. Travis Franklin. Right? He's. He's like a big. He's. He's like a voice in my ear in the life. He's like, Jake, if you like her, shoot your shot right away.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:45]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:25:45]:
There's no point in you doing this little dance. You're trying to get to know each other either way. Ask her out to dinner. Have some courage. Go up and ask her out for dinner.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:53]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:25:53]:
That's his whole thing of, like, don't do the three month text back and forth. I'm gonna hang out. If you wanna get to know her, ask her out to dinner and take her out.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:02]:
So can you date more than one people at one time.
Jake Messner [00:26:07]:
You guys? Okay. Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:09]:
And when we say date, clarify what you mean by that.
Jake Messner [00:26:12]:
Okay. I think there's a point where if you're dating, right. You're trying to get to know people. You can get to know multiple people at once.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:21]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:26:21]:
Can you not? Now, there is a point. Sometimes it's spoken and sometimes it's unspoken, where you would know, man, if this, if this girl is, like, showing a ton of interest, and I'm showing a ton of interest back in our relationship, that's moving deeper. But you're still keeping these other dates quiet. I would say that's a little bit different. But if you just, like, if I were to go on a date with you once and go on a date with you once and go on a date with you once, but I would say it's not like some. You should keep a secret forever.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:49]:
Yeah, obviously. So would you be fine. Text, like, you're texting multiple girls going on dates, me with multiple girls, then when's the point where you go, oh, okay, now I have to make a decision. And what do you do? Like, when's that point? Because I think sometimes, from my understanding, it feels like girls take a little more. Not seriously, but like, they're a little quicker to be like, oh, I'm really talking to this one guy. So I have to let all the other ones go. Where I think sometimes, well, it can be both genders, actually, where certain people are like, oh, I actually, there's a point that I reach that then I let everybody else go.
Jake Messner [00:27:29]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:29]:
What's that point? Is that, like, oh, I told them I like them, and then I need to let everybody else.
Jake Messner [00:27:34]:
I think it's different for everyone. I would just say when you feel like the social intimacy is crossing a barrier from just like, hey, I'm getting to know you and we're friends to where it's like, man, we're having some deep, like, conversation here.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:44]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:27:45]:
And there's big interest on both sides. We just went through this with, I think I was telling you all about my sister's dating life. We were on FaceTime with her and talking about all.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:52]:
Yeah, she fine with us talking about this.
Jake Messner [00:27:54]:
Yeah, she had like a couple days. She had like five days. She had gone on theme sandwich shops, coffee shops, whatever. And a couple of the guys were texting her and she got to a point where she's like, hey, there's this. I have to. I gotta pick one.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:06]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:28:07]:
Cuz I'm not just gonna linger in this state of like.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:09]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:28:09]:
Holding five conversations and she had to pick one and drop the other four.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:13]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:28:14]:
Bye.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:14]:
So my hot take on this is. I think she'd be fine with me sharing this, but so my, my grandma, Grandma Jan. Queen. The queen.
Jake Messner [00:28:23]:
Queen.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:24]:
By the way, she listens. She listens to every episode and she gives a review of every episode. So we'll have to start posting.
Jake Messner [00:28:30]:
Grandma Jan, I love you. Whichever camera you're looking at.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:31]:
Yes, she's amazing. But she tells the story of her first date with my grandfather. It was funny because I guess this was like, no texting, obviously. It was like if you made a phone call, it had to have been a landline situation or an in person situation. So there wasn't all this in between communication. It was like the ask of the date, the going on the date, the coming back from the date, maybe asking for a second date. And he shows up to her house to pick her up for their first date. And she realizes that he came on the wrong day and she was going on a different date that night.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:03]:
Grandma's to my grandfather. He was one day early and she was going on a different date that night. This is my grandfather who shows up to take her on a date and he's a day early. And she has to tell him, I'm actually going out with somebody different tonight. And she thought, his feelings are gonna be so hurt. He's gonna be so done with this.
Jake Messner [00:29:18]:
No.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:19]:
And he came back the next night and took her on a date.
Jake Messner [00:29:21]:
And then it was like, I believe that guy.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:23]:
He probably was more into it after.
Jake Messner [00:29:24]:
Yeah. What's his name?
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:26]:
His name was Homer.
Jake Messner [00:29:27]:
Homer. Homer's in that situation. He's like, all right, I'm about to turn it on in competition. He's like, bro, I'm about to go to eleven.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:33]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:29:33]:
We were gonna go get burgers.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:35]:
Nah, now we're going to.
Jake Messner [00:29:37]:
Yeah, we going to steak. We going out. Okay, I'm borrowing uncle's Caddy. I'm stepping it up.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:43]:
So here, here is my, here is my hot take on this. My unpopular opinion on this is I think that dating multiple people at once used to be okay when there was not communication in between dates. I think when it's solely like, I'm going on a date with this person, I go, we go on a date. We have that happen. We come back, I do something different with somebody the next night. Great. All of the in between communication has created this relationship that's taking place between guys and girls, whether or not they've defined the relationship. Like, I think we text too much, we call too much.
Jake Messner [00:30:16]:
There's too much social intimacy building way too much with one person, which makes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:21]:
Me feel like you can't be doing that with multiple people at once because you're already kind of in a quasi relationship.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:26]:
Well, and we're getting way too intimate too fast without even ever having like, talked to the person face to face.
Jake Messner [00:30:32]:
And christians are the worst.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:33]:
Oh, they text so much. I'm gonna tell you everything about me.
Jake Messner [00:30:37]:
Okay, that was great. Hey, what are your five love languages and what do you struggle with the most? We're zooming here.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:46]:
Totally.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:47]:
Wait, so let's talk about that. What, what are some things that girls do that kind of it. Guys out sometimes, like on a first date or texting or whatever that you think they probably think is working and it's not.
Jake Messner [00:31:01]:
Oh, man. Something I would say, like the biggest ick. And this is like, before you even start dating, if there's a girl who is not comfortable being single, it's an ick.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:13]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:31:13]:
Like if you, if you have a conversation with a girl and it's like, oh, she's not ambitious, she's not moving her life. If she's not comfortable standing on her own or standing alone and she just has this like, oh, I'm just waiting for a boyfriend. Like a boyfriend is the one thing that's gonna be the next best thing in her life. Ichd. Yeah, you have to be. Yeah, I would just say that's like a big thing of like, you guys, I wanna date a girl that is totally comfortable and advancing her life and standing alone really, really well and investing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:44]:
In her relationship with a lot of.
Jake Messner [00:31:45]:
Yeah, you can tell when it's like, hey, this. Some people are just literally waiting around, waiting a guy.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:50]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:31:50]:
And I'm like, man, I want you to go be ambitious. I want you to be growing in yourself. I want you to be serving in the church without a guy. Don't be waiting for a guy to start living. Don't wait for a guy to start living.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:00]:
That's good, Jake, because both people are bringing something into the relationship.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:04]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:04]:
And if you've sat around kind of sulking, you're not really bringing much to the relationship when you come together. So it's like, build your life, build your relationship. Like you said with God, build your friendships. Go after things like, that is. That's really good. And you can still want a relationship. Like, you can still be bummed out occasionally. Like, man, I thought this would happen by now, or like, that's okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:24]:
But to not let that take over.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:26]:
Your entire life, you're not waiting just for that.
Jake Messner [00:32:27]:
Yes. When someone asks you, like, hey, like, what's going on in your life? And the first thing you would say with yourself is, oh, I'm single. I'm like, I don't think that's the most important thing that's going on.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:40]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:32:40]:
Being single should not be the most. The biggest problem you need to solve for.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:44]:
It doesn't define you. No.
Jake Messner [00:32:46]:
And you can tell when you meet a girl who's like, I am. I'm here for a boyfriend.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:50]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:32:51]:
You. You're at age 25.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:52]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:32:53]:
And you can tell when it's like, oh, there's people that are here strictly to find someone.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:57]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:32:58]:
I don't think there's a terrible thing. But if that's the most important thing that you have going, problem number one, you need to solve it. I just think it. It's a little bit of an ick.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:06]:
Yeah. So I come to you on behalf of females everywhere. Okay. This is, this is. This is a preconceived notion that we have about christian guys, and I want you to speak to this as you chug your red bull.
Jake Messner [00:33:17]:
Sip.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:18]:
Sip your red sipper. Where the fly come from.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:20]:
No, it's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:21]:
We're in the great outdoors right now. We're on Jake's camping.
Jake Messner [00:33:26]:
We are in a living room.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:27]:
Yeah. You feel the warm light coming in. Okay. Christian girls think there's a perception that christian guys are not going for it and asking girls out on dates as much as they should. Why are christian guys so slow towards, like, initiating and making something happen? That's the perception. Might not be the reality, but that's the perception. And I feel like I've seen this to be true for sure, which. Which I wonder if that creates this sort of thing where girls are.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:02]:
Girls come across as a little bit more like, all right, I'm ready. Like, last. The other night at roundup, someone asked this question, like, why are guys so prone towards asking christian girls on dates? And literally all the girls took to their feet, and they're like, this conversation.
Jake Messner [00:34:18]:
With my sister all the time of, like, I think she would kind of say the same thing, but I would say, I think in general, especially in the christian church, there's this notion that, man, if you, like, if a guy and a girl are talking and they're over 20 years old, they're getting married, right? There's this notion of, like, there is no, like, hey, we can just go on a date and get to know each other without this big, deeper thing happening. The expectations that get put on two people when they just go on one date to get to know each other, I think, are so high that for the guy, I think oftentimes they feel trapped of, like, man, I can't take this girl on a date and just get to know her unless I'm sure, because if we go on one date and I decide, no, I'm.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:59]:
You know, then all of her friends are off limits.
Jake Messner [00:35:06]:
Wait. To one date now from. I think from the girls in and from the guys in, and just the whole church in general has put so much weight on. Oh, two people went on one date. We're serious.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:17]:
Which makes you feel like you have to be uber sure.
Jake Messner [00:35:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:22]:
This is something you want to do. Ask her on one date.
Jake Messner [00:35:24]:
Yeah. And I even talked to, like. Like, I have some people from 1825 are small boys who were like, yeah, that's where I'm at. I don't think I can just casually go on a date with her without it meaning a ton. I think dating has become too much of a wait. It's hard to go on just a casual date without, like, the expectations being piled on really quickly, really early.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:46]:
Do girls do something to pile on that pressure a little bit too early, that we are not aware that we're doing it, but it actually makes you feel. Guys feel like there's too much pressure. I know you can't speak for girls everywhere.
Jake Messner [00:35:59]:
Yeah, I can't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:00]:
In your experience?
Jake Messner [00:36:01]:
No, I would say it's more. It's just, like, a society thing more than it is a specific girl thing. Like, I think. I think there's this pressure that comes. That's just built into society it's. It's just the way it is sometimes. But I would say, mmm, I think in the way. Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:36:17]:
A girl talks about a date a little bit of, like, there is. It doesn't feel like you can just take someone on a date very casually.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:25]:
Like, are we too serious about it?
Jake Messner [00:36:27]:
You too?
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:27]:
No, I'm saying, like, I'm speaking for girls.
Jake Messner [00:36:29]:
Oh, oh, you're speaking for girls.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:31]:
I'm speaking for girls.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:32]:
If you have an answer to us, though, I know we'd like to know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:34]:
We put a lot of pressure on you. We do. But I'm speaking, like, on behalf of girls. Are girls putting too much pressure on a first date? Are we trying to DTR a little bit too early? Are we, like, what are we doing that's creating?
Leslie Johnston [00:36:46]:
What can we do to make it feel not as intense? Like, if guys are feeling a little freaked out by that. Not that we have to.
Jake Messner [00:36:54]:
Like, it's not freaked out as much as it is. It makes you feel like you have to be extra, extra. Sure.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:59]:
Yeah. Which means you're freaked out by.
Jake Messner [00:37:01]:
Yeah. I would just say, be okay with a casual date. I think there's. I think there's a level of like, hey, don't get wrapped up in things too quickly. Take things a little slow sometimes. Of like, we're just getting to know each other. That's what this is, is us getting to know each other. And I think sometimes it's like, no, us going on a date means a lot more that we already know each other.
Jake Messner [00:37:19]:
Like, you asked me on a date. We're gonna. My parents think we're getting married next week.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:23]:
Oh, my gosh.
Jake Messner [00:37:23]:
You know what I mean? I just think the train is hauling fast sometimes.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:27]:
Do you think part of it is people talk, like, is there too much chitter chatter?
Jake Messner [00:37:34]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:35]:
About dating. Like, a girl goes on a date with you, or.
Jake Messner [00:37:37]:
Thousand percent.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:38]:
Like, I go on a date with a guy, and then all of a sudden, I tell all my friends, and everybody knows, and there's too much. Like, that's part of my journey. Yes. I've already practiced last name.
Jake Messner [00:37:47]:
I checked my prayer list from 13, and he's got most of them. Yeah. I don't know. So let me ask you guys this. If I come because you guys are, like, my friends. You guys are who I talk to about situations. And Amy Zielsdorf, shout out, Amy. If there's a girl where I'm like, hey, I kind of like her.
Jake Messner [00:38:02]:
She seems cool.
Leslie Johnston [00:38:02]:
Mm hmm.
Jake Messner [00:38:03]:
I think I'm gonna ask her on a date. What would you guys say? Would you guys, like, from your perspective, are you like, well, you got to make sure you like her first. I feel like that's kind of, like, a common thing of like, well, you gotta make sure you like her before you ask her on a date.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:15]:
No, no. This is what I tell you all the time. This is what I tell you this. Can I go in for a second? The thing that I don't understand about I'll make it broad. I don't think a guy needs to decidedly like a girl before asking her on a date. That's the point of the date, is to go and see if you like her. The part that frustrates me, and I'm speaking from past experience, is a lot of guys like to hang out in the middle with these, like, blurred lines of relationships. We're communicating an unhealthy amount.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:49]:
We're, like, hanging out, just the two of us. But no one's decided whether or not this is a date, and it doesn't seem like it's moving forwards or backwards. So I don't think a guy needs to decidedly be like, I like you to ask you on a date. I do think that guys have created this middle ground territory that can be more harmful than it is good. And maybe that middle ground territory has been created because you guys feel like there's been too much pressure surrounding dates. So you try to, like, go through the back entrance a little bit.
Jake Messner [00:39:17]:
Yeah, I could for sure.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:18]:
But it blows up in your face.
Jake Messner [00:39:19]:
Yeah, yeah. Here's what I would say. There is people attacked. No, no, no. Cause there's definitely been girls where it's like, you know, you would flame me and my sister and all the women in my life that are friends would be like, you're living in this weird middle ground. You gotta make up your mind most of the time in those situations that have happened, it's cause I really don't actually like her enough.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:39]:
So then why are you hanging out with her?
Jake Messner [00:39:40]:
I think there's this, like, again. And this happens where it's like, oh, you know, I'll hold on to you for a little bit. The truth is, I don't actually want to date you. The conversation's fun and stuff. Luckily, I have people in my life who are like, you know, let that one go. You know, and then there's people where it's like, I'm not back to the girl that worked in the office. I was not living in the middle ground. I was pretty clear, confrontational about, like, hey, let's go on a date.
Jake Messner [00:40:04]:
Yeah, let's go on a date. I'm not living in this weird middle ground. I would say oftentimes, if a guy's in that weird middle ground, one, he's lacking absolute courage and you probably don't want to date him.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:13]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:40:14]:
Or he's. He hasn't made up his own mind, and I don't know if you want.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:18]:
To date that, either.
Jake Messner [00:40:18]:
I don't know if you want to date that, either.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:20]:
It's like, it's. It's your decision if you want to stick around and find out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:22]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:23]:
But don't be upset if it doesn't go your way.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:25]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:25]:
Like, I think. And, girls, this is the thing girls do that I don't want to just flame. Guys. Girls do the exact same thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:31]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:31]:
Girls will do the whole, like, I'm gonna talk to him for a while because it's fun to talk to somebody, and I don't really want to let them go because I don't know who's next. And, yes, that's a good thing.
Jake Messner [00:40:41]:
It's the nice. I'm not sure on both ends. I think I do it and girls do it. The not sure culture. Someone's got to ask a freaking question here.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:49]:
Yeah. I've ever dated. I've been like, now, some of them have been like, we were friends first, so that kind of helped. But it was always like a, we're going to go on a date, and then it was, like, serious from then on out. Like, there was intention. It wasn't this weird game of, like, well, we're gonna talk, but then you're not gonna hear from me for a week. Like, no. No relationship ends up good from that.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:12]:
Unless you're, like, the one exception.
Jake Messner [00:41:13]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:13]:
I just think that, like, Kevin said this the other night, but I think for a girl, and, well, I don't know if guys feel okay with girls asking them out. Does that feel weird to you?
Jake Messner [00:41:27]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:28]:
What if she proposed to you?
Leslie Johnston [00:41:29]:
Would that be okay?
Jake Messner [00:41:30]:
Oh, geez. No, probably not. No.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:34]:
For Jake Messer, there might be some.
Jake Messner [00:41:35]:
Guys there for sure. There may be some guys out there for me. I don't know. Yeah, I couldn't. I would not want that. I would not want a girl coming up to me, asking me out. I don't think. Yeah, I don't think now, it's never happened.
Jake Messner [00:41:48]:
No girl has ever come up to me and asked me out, so I can't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:51]:
You can't say for certain?
Jake Messner [00:41:52]:
I can't say for certain.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:53]:
But, yeah, there might be some. I think deep down, girls want to feel like they're being chased a little bit.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:00]:
Oh.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:01]:
They want to know that the guy has, like, pursued them in a way that I want to win.
Jake Messner [00:42:05]:
Like, I feel like I want to go out and win.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:08]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:42:08]:
I want to, like, get the prize.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:10]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:42:10]:
You know what I mean?
Leslie Johnston [00:42:12]:
Stop talking. Stop all your.
Jake Messner [00:42:17]:
Get the girl.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:18]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:42:18]:
You know?
Leslie Johnston [00:42:19]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:42:21]:
I don't want to be handed. I don't want to be handed a win.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:23]:
Yeah. Now, I think there's different areas in your relationship where, like, some people take the front seat, some people take the backseat, and it can look different for every couple. But I do think if you're a girl and you are the only one pushing this freaking relationship forward, this is not the guy. Like, if you are the one doing everything to make this going, like, this is not going to end well for you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:43]:
It's not the. Yeah, it's not the guy.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:44]:
Not the guy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:45]:
Kevin said this other night, he said, I think if a guy is more excited about the possibility that you would say yes versus the fear of rejection if she says no, that's the kind of quality that you want to look for in a husband. So I think that.
Jake Messner [00:43:04]:
And I've been in both places.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:05]:
And you've been in both places?
Jake Messner [00:43:06]:
I've been both places, yes. Where it's like, man, I can think of people where it's, like, the possibility of a yes. Forget the loss. Right. And those are the people that I end up shooting the question with.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:16]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:43:17]:
And I can also think of, like, the fear of a no, it's probably worse.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:21]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:43:22]:
And then I tend to put myself in that weird middle ground.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:26]:
Jake loves the middle ground. Okay. Used to another question. Did you have something you want to say?
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:31]:
No, I'm gonna do a rapid fire at some point.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:33]:
So. Gosh, what is an insecurity that guys have, whether it's during dating or even talking or whatever, that girls don't know that they have, that we could actually maybe even, like, help you feel at ease.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:45]:
Yeah. Like a fear or an insecurity or something. What do you guys feel about dating?
Leslie Johnston [00:43:48]:
Because girls can carry their own fears and all that stuff about dating and whatever. But what is something that guys can be actually insecure about on first dates or when you're starting to get to know them?
Jake Messner [00:44:02]:
I don't know. I would say for me, I think there's a pressure. I take pressure, and, like, man, I want to plan a great first date. Like, I want to have a fun, adventurous, good first date, and I would say, like, sometimes I feel a little bit of insecurity of, like, what if I bomb it? What if I bomb the first date? Cause I want it to be, like, a good representation of how, like, fun I am.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:21]:
And bomb the planning, or bomb planning the way that you are.
Jake Messner [00:44:25]:
The planning, the actual planning of, like, what if I ask her on this date and we go and she's like, it was okay. We just, like, kind of went for a hike and, like, frozen yogurt? She's like, I don't know if he planned it super well. I think that's, like, an insecurity amount of someone he didn't gets back to all her girls and be like, can you believe? Guess what he planned a hike in frozen yogurt.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:50]:
That's funny. I wouldn't think that guys are insecure about that.
Jake Messner [00:44:52]:
That's something I think about, but that's just, I want to plan a great first date.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:56]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:44:56]:
The hike in frozen yogurt, too, was my go to in high school. My absolute go to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:02]:
Well, what's funny about that is, like, if you think about it post marriage, unless you date a guy who's just like, really? Or unless you're married to a guy who's really creative, the girls are probably the ones who end up creating most of the fun, creative experiences. Cause guys aren't really planners. So to think about the fact that a guy is the one to plan your first date, that probably is a big insecurity. You're like, I don't like doing this. So I would be scared that the girl wouldn't like it.
Jake Messner [00:45:27]:
What if she doesn't like what I plan?
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:28]:
Right.
Jake Messner [00:45:29]:
Cause I'm probably not the person that's gonna like, I'm not gonna plan like, oh, let's go sit at a dinner somewhere. Yeah, I want to go do something fun. Yeah. I want to be out and be walking. It also gives, like, a fallback.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:42]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:45:42]:
In case it starts.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:43]:
If it's horrible, in case it's not.
Jake Messner [00:45:45]:
Going great, you have something to lean on.
Leslie Johnston [00:45:47]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:45:47]:
You know, and so, yeah, I would just say, I think sometimes I think to myself, man, I hope she doesn't hate this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:53]:
What's the deeper one that you're not saying? The deeper that one's. That was the dear I like. What's the deeper fear insecurity that a.
Leslie Johnston [00:46:02]:
Lot of guys have? It doesn't have to be you. It can be guys. You know? Like, this is kind of what they carry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:06]:
Doesn't even need to be about the first day. It could be about dating in general.
Jake Messner [00:46:09]:
Just dating in general relationships? Yeah, I think it would be the same. Like, you're, you're constantly asking yourself, man, does she like me as much as I like her? Yeah, that's like, that. That's a, that can be a tough question of, like, does she like me as much as I like her? Because I really like this girl. Yeah, I really, really like her. And I think there's a worry of, like, what if, what if she doesn't like me as much? Yeah, it's gonna suck. If I choose to be fully me and fully myself and someone gets to know everything about, like, who I am and choose decides to say no, that's gonna be a kick in the stomach.
Leslie Johnston [00:46:45]:
Hey, what are guys looking for on a first date from the girl? Like, what's like, youre, what's the thing? You go onto a date and you're like, man, I really hope I, like, learn this or this is what I'm trying to get out of this date.
Jake Messner [00:47:01]:
I'm trying to see if we can, like, I guess it's pretty simple of, like, can we hang out one? Does it vibe? I know. That's so.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:08]:
We're so right. We're so right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:10]:
This is so good. Does it vibe?
Leslie Johnston [00:47:11]:
Does it vibe?
Jake Messner [00:47:12]:
That's a tough target to hit. That's a tough target to hit. Cause you're like, what is it? What does the vibe mean? Like, maybe.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:17]:
Yeah, but you just.
Jake Messner [00:47:18]:
Can, can I, can you hang out with someone and have conversation and you've been in a conversation with people where you're like, I. It's been ten minutes. It feels like it's been an hour and a half.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:27]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:47:28]:
Get me out of here. Even with, like, co workers, there may be some co workers or some people in your office that you have a conversation with, and you're like, ten minutes with you feels like 6 hours.
Leslie Johnston [00:47:38]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:47:39]:
And then there's some people where it's like, man, 6 hours with you feels like ten minutes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:42]:
Yeah, that's cool. So how so? Okay, so. But first dates are nerve wracking. And I think inevitably, a first date, especially with someone that you don't know very well, can feel a little, like, interview esque. How many dates do you give it before you're like, yeah, this isn't the vibe?
Jake Messner [00:47:59]:
Probably one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:01]:
Really? One and done. The girl gets one shot to prove that she's vibe worthy. No, that's, that is.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:09]:
No, you're not younger. You're not a one dater. We know you too, too well, Jake. You're like, let's go on five dates.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:16]:
And then I'll figure out how I feel.
Jake Messner [00:48:17]:
Yeah. Retry. Hit the retry button. Retry.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:19]:
Second try.
Jake Messner [00:48:20]:
Retry. Well, I think here's the difficult thing, is it varies. If, again, if you're a guy that's, like, on the edge about a girl, you haven't really made up your mind, but you're like, hey, let's go on a date and figure it out. And the first day bombs, it's gonna be like, well, you know what? That was enough to push me off.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:35]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:48:36]:
But then there's also been girls that I've really, really liked, and we go on a date and it bombs. But I'm like, we can make this. We can run it back. We'll make this work again. And you go again. And so I would just say, like, sometimes you get, if the guy really, really likes you, there's more grace for you to mess it up. Do you know what I mean?
Leslie Johnston [00:48:54]:
Yes. Yeah, that's true.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:55]:
I have a rapid fire, rapid fire. A series of questions. I want to disclaimer this first, though. Okay, you ready? The disclaimer is girls developmentally reach a mature state faster than guys do, 1000%, which creates a little bit of a dating discrepancy in that I think girls are lessen prone to allowing guys to fully lead because sometimes girls actually do know better and have a little bit more wisdom.
Jake Messner [00:49:22]:
You're thinking to yourself, I'm developmentally farther than you. I'm leading.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:27]:
Yes, in some instances. But the challenge is in some ways, one of the guys roles is to help spearhead and lead the relationship. But I don't think girls often get. Now, I don't think that guys need to lead every aspect of the relationship, but I'm saying this. Sometimes I think girls take charge a little bit too quickly on things that they could let the guy lead on, but they do it out of fear that the guy won't lead it well and they could lead it better.
Jake Messner [00:49:52]:
What? On what?
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:53]:
So this is my question. This is my question. So when it comes to dating, how quickly do you bring up. And I'm going to bring up a couple things. How quickly when you're dating, do you bring up faith? Immediate first date.
Jake Messner [00:50:09]:
Before.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:10]:
Before.
Jake Messner [00:50:11]:
Yeah, before, like, faith. Where do you stand with the. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:15]:
Okay.
Jake Messner [00:50:16]:
Early.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:16]:
Early. How quickly do you bring up past partners?
Jake Messner [00:50:21]:
Give it a. Give it a little bit of time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:23]:
How much time?
Jake Messner [00:50:24]:
Probably, like, get to know the other person and who they are before you start jumping in who they are at the current moment. Before you start jumping into their past.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:32]:
I would say, how quickly do you bring up strongholds, current strongholds you're talking about?
Jake Messner [00:50:37]:
Just, like, actual, like, deep spiritual intimacy.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:39]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:50:40]:
How long until we dive into, like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:41]:
Some deep spiritual addictions, some stuff going on?
Jake Messner [00:50:44]:
Oh, yeah. There needs to be a severe level of trust established. So I would say months. Like, definitely not dating. You ain't doing that while you're dating. That's like, you're deep into boyfriend and girlfriend stuff. I would say a couple months into that relationship where there's been absolute trust and confidence built into the partner. Before you start bringing up some, like, your spiritual strongholds.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:06]:
Like, it would scare you if a girl was like, you're just kind of dating, and she's like, so tell me about, like, what's. What's the deepest thing that you could tell me?
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:15]:
What's your sin? Struggle?
Jake Messner [00:51:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're not ever getting an honest answer. Yeah. You're probably just like, yeah, this has been great.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:23]:
Yeah. Cause I will say my mom, like.
Jake Messner [00:51:25]:
We'Re just not there yet.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:26]:
My mom has a theory back to the first date or, like, the. What guys are looking for in a first date and what girls are looking for. Girls, guys are looking for. Like, I just wanna know if we can vibe. Well, like, is this fun? Can I have fun with you? Can I be lighthearted? Can I feel really mad?
Jake Messner [00:51:41]:
Can I be me around you and feel comfortable doing it?
Leslie Johnston [00:51:44]:
And a lot of girls can be the same way, but I feel like I used to get trapped in, like, well, I gotta ask some questions. Cause I gotta know, like, can we have deep conversation? Can he tell, like, I wanna know about him? Like, is he spiritually, whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:56]:
Is he.
Leslie Johnston [00:51:57]:
You know, I had all these things in my mind, and I'd go on these dates, and I'd be like, why are they not asking me all these deep questions? And my mom is like, because they don't care.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:07]:
They don't care.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:07]:
They want to know that they can vibe with you before you go into all of the deep conversations.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:12]:
Yes. But I think the girl shoots in, like you said, like a train girl's.
Jake Messner [00:52:16]:
Going on a date. Be like, I gotta get to know this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:18]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:18]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:52:18]:
I want to get to know you and your spiritual strong. I want to make sure that you are a good man, which I would.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:26]:
Not be, like, stronghold.
Jake Messner [00:52:28]:
Can you vibe?
Leslie Johnston [00:52:29]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:31]:
Right?
Leslie Johnston [00:52:31]:
It's so, like, different that I feel like that's where people get messed up because they leave a date going, okay. It was really fun, but I'm afraid because we didn't talk about anything serious. I don't think we'll ever be able to talk about anything serious.
Jake Messner [00:52:42]:
Like, I still want to get to know him. I feel like I don't know him at all.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:46]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:52:46]:
And the guys probably going home be like, we vibed. Yeah, the boys, it's like, yeah, we vibed. I'll start opening myself up a little bit more. Will probably start texting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:56]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:52:57]:
Yes. So I would just say men on the first date just be okay with. With a guy trying to like, figure out there again.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:04]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:53:05]:
Two people trying to figure out two different things on one date. It ain't gonna work super well.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:09]:
That's true. You might need to, and if you're.
Jake Messner [00:53:11]:
A hot tip, ask some deep questions. Invoke some deep conversation while you're trying to figure it out.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:16]:
How fast should you bring up marriage?
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:18]:
The word marriage?
Jake Messner [00:53:20]:
Like, bring up the word marriage?
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:22]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:23]:
Not like, oh, my parents are married.
Jake Messner [00:53:24]:
But I don't know cuz we like, we know some people who, I mean, they're getting married like a year after dating, you know. And then I know some other people who've been dating for a lot longer. So depends on. Depends on the person that that all comes from. Like, you getting to know the person. Sometimes you're dating someone who can be a little bit more like, spooked off by those things.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:45]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:53:45]:
So don't bring it up.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:46]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:53:46]:
If you know that's like a big thing for them. Talk about, don't bring it out.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:49]:
Okay, I have one last question and then Morgan can ask a question. What are you looking for in a girl when she meets your friends?
Jake Messner [00:53:59]:
That is so funny. I'm thinking through my friends and their wives and their girlfriends. Cause I have a group of like seven best friends and some of them are married, some of them are single. It can be our friend group. We always joke of like, what a wild dynamic to bring someone into of like, you who don't know these people versus me who's known them for 15 years, and you're coming and you're sitting at the table, it's like, hey, feel free to, like, jump into the conversation, like, have. Say something.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:32]:
Yeah, yeah.
Jake Messner [00:54:33]:
My friends are not judgmental people. They're probably, they're like, they're wanting to get to know you as much as you're wanting to get to know who they are.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:39]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:54:40]:
Right. So don't be a watcher. Yes, don't be a watcher. I remember one time going to dinner with me and all my friends and a girl and who was a watcher. And my friends are just trying to, like, work and, like, dig out conversation, but she's just. The word watcher is, I'm just gonna watch everyone else interact and just. It's like, no, like, have some conversation.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:58]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:54:59]:
So. And then the other thing would be like, man, I like Caleb and my brother Josh. Caleb's my best friend. My brother Josh. Their wives. Their wives are easy to talk to. Anyone can talk to him. Talk to them.
Jake Messner [00:55:10]:
Like, when you're sitting down and you're meeting all of his friends and maybe his. His best friends wives and husbands talk to the. Talk to people. That's my whole thing is don't be a watcher.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:17]:
That's really good, because it can be nerve wracking. When you're a girl going into this, it can be like. I know, intimidating, but you need to go. I think what happens is a lot of girls go into a scenario where they feel uncomfortable. So they'll attach themselves to the boyfriend.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:34]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:35]:
And they'll be like, well, I'm safe here, and if I'm just next to him, I can be a part of every conversation that he's in.
Morgan May Treuil [00:55:39]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:40]:
But actually, a lot of guys want you. They want to know you can go into a room and they don't have to babysit you.
Jake Messner [00:55:45]:
Yes. I do not want to feel like when I bring you around my friends, I'm constantly having to care for you and make sure you're good and make sure you feel okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:55:54]:
So even if it's awkward, put yourself out there. Even if the conversation bombs, it's like, at least their friends know that you're trying.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:00]:
It's attractive to a guy when you can make friends with people in the room without him. So the strategy for that is find the other girls in the room and become their best friends.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:09]:
I have gone into a room before where I was intimidated about who I was meeting. It's like, a lot of people. I texted Morgan before, and I said, literally, these people are so different from me. What questions do you ask people when you first meet them?
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:21]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:21]:
And she sent me a list. She's like, these are the questions I go to. And I was like, thank you.
Jake Messner [00:56:27]:
Goes back to what I said at the beginning of, like, this is why you want to date a girl who can. Who can stand alone on her own when she's single.
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:34]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:56:34]:
If a girl can stand alone on her own when she's single, you know that when you bring her around to friends, hey, she's got, like, that built up her ability to stand on her own a little bit.
Leslie Johnston [00:56:41]:
That's true.
Jake Messner [00:56:42]:
But also, never be afraid to ask a guy if I'm going, if I'm bringing a girl around all my friends, she's like, hey, how do I win with your friends? I'm not thinking to myself, I can't believe you asked that question. If y'all are driving on the way to dinner and, you know, you're meeting his friends, ask him, hey, what's a win with your friends?
Morgan May Treuil [00:56:59]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:56:59]:
How do I win with, how do I win with your friends?
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:01]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:57:02]:
I would have an answer for each and every single one of them. I'd be like, when with Alex, win with Levi, win with Josh, when with Caleb.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:08]:
And I would say for the guy, this is my encouragement to the guy. So to you and to whoever are 8% who are listening, you set the girl up for success in that when you bring her in and include her in the conversation versus, like, I think people can become watchers when they don't feel like they have a way in, when oftentimes, it's just like, it's one way in that helps them get their feet of on, like, in a conversation or in a friend group. So as much as a guy can, like, not leave her to the wolves, but, like, help bring her in.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:38]:
And make her a part of things that gives her a little bit more security.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:41]:
And if you're a friend in a group where someone's bringing in a significant other.
Morgan May Treuil [00:57:45]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:57:46]:
Be that person that goes to that girl or that guy and ask them questions. Like, sometimes we sit there as, like, we are the friends, and it's like, no, like, bring them in. Bring them in eventually, if they're together, and if that person doesn't think that the friends like them, guess what? You're probably not gonna see that person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:58:04]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:58:05]:
Yeah. I would say, like, the other thing, too, is, like, I have great friends, and when you, like, if you're going in and meeting all my friends, I think there can be this big weight that's put on it of, like, I have to. I have to, like, they have to like me. No one's making that decision after the first time you meet him. My friends are not meeting a girl for the first time and being like, well, no, Jake, you can't date her. Or, yes, you should date her. Yes, they understand. It takes, like, it.
Jake Messner [00:58:30]:
She's not comfortable. There's no world that when she can sit at a dinner table with me and my friends and feel fully comfortable being yourself. There is so much going on there's ten conversations. People yelling, screaming, bringing up old stories. It's like straight out of a movie. Yeah, like seven people sitting in a dinner talk and laughing. And we don't get to see each other much. So, like, it'd be like, you know, I see my friends now that I live up here once every six months.
Jake Messner [00:58:52]:
And so when I'm sitting at a table with him, bro, it is like a scene out of a movie. So we understand, like, you're not gonna, it's not gonna feel completely comfortable and okay. And the guy, my friends know that. My friends aren't thinking, hey, Jake, I just wanna let you know we're watching on this one. Yeah, we're watching on this one. They're like, Jake, if you really like this girl, we're gonna do everything we can to make her feel comfortable around us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:13]:
You have to answer this in 1 second because we are wrapping up. What can a girl do to give a guy the confidence to ask her out, man?
Jake Messner [00:59:23]:
Quality time, intentional conversation. If he walks into a room, have like, notice him, talk to him, go up and bring him and invite him places. If he's like a little bit timid and is more on the timid side, invite him out to eat with you and your friends afterwards and stuff like that. I would say exactly. It's flirting. It's flirting. You make it known that you want to be around him.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:45]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:59:45]:
Make it known that you want to be around him.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:47]:
It's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:47]:
And do stuff. I like that. Do stuff in groups too. Like, you don't necessarily have to ask him out on the date. Just be like, hey, wanna come out with me and my friends?
Jake Messner [00:59:53]:
Bring em. Bring em around.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:54]:
Yes. That's great, Jake.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:55]:
This was awesome.
Morgan May Treuil [00:59:56]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:59:57]:
Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for giving lots of wisdom and us just berating you with questions.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:02]:
Did you have fun?
Jake Messner [01:00:03]:
I did.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:03]:
Good.
Jake Messner [01:00:04]:
I did.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:04]:
He's like, does it have to be over?
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:06]:
I want to stay here forever.
Jake Messner [01:00:08]:
I could yap for a while.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:09]:
You were.
Jake Messner [01:00:10]:
I thought you were gonna get a little more tacky. So I feel. I feel, I know.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:13]:
I'm kind of bummed. I felt like we could have attacked you more.
Jake Messner [01:00:15]:
Yeah, I feel like I was gonna. I've gotten attacked by y'all before.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:19]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jake Messner [01:00:20]:
I for sure gotten attacked by in some situations.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:22]:
I didn't know if we were gonna last night easily.
Jake Messner [01:00:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Reamed.
Morgan May Treuil [01:00:26]:
So that's awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Jake, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.
Leslie Johnston [01:00:30]:
Okay, we'll catch you guys next time on am I doing this right?