Does God Care About What You Want? w/ Annie F. Downs (Replay)

Leslie Johnston [00:00:00]:
Today, we're replaying one of our absolute favorite episodes with Annie F. Downs. She is funny, relatable. She talks so honestly about waiting, disappointment, hope, all of the things that people might feel when they feel like they're in a waiting season. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:16]:
All right. Hey, welcome back to the Am I Doing this Right Podcast.

Leslie Johnston [00:00:20]:
That's right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:21]:
Leslie and Morgan are here. And this is Happy New Year. This is the first episode you are listening to in the new year. And so we thought we've got to bring on the best New Year's surprise guest that we can think of who is somebody that we look up to, whose life we. We aspire to live, like, who is like Jesus and is doing it right.

Leslie Johnston [00:00:42]:
She's doing it right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:43]:
And she's doing it super right. So we brought on Annie F. Downs to the podcast.

Annie F. Downs [00:00:47]:
Well, ladies, I don't. I don't know who that list was about, but I'm sorry, she said no. And I'm very available, so.

Leslie Johnston [00:00:54]:
And this is why we already love you, because you're hilarious. You're so fun.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:57]:
You are incredibly down to earth. Like, you are, like. You are personable, and you make people feel like home almost immediately. Do you get that feedback a lot?

Annie F. Downs [00:01:08]:
Well, here's what Morgan, let me tell you a great thing about me. I have had perfect attendance to every win of my life, and I've also had perfect attendance to every sin in my life. So I know exactly who I am.

Leslie Johnston [00:01:20]:
You're like, present, not be.

Annie F. Downs [00:01:22]:
Down to. Yeah. I'm like, oh, you want me to tell you about her? Because I've been at all of them. And so it's just very. Whenever you meet people who do our jobs, who have any kind of public life and they aren't normal, I'm like, what? Have you forgotten that you attended? Yeah, because you were at all of them. You were at all of them, so that's hilarious. So it is very easy because. And also, I never set out to be.

Annie F. Downs [00:01:49]:
I think there's people. There's, like, actors and musicians and what I'm thinking about people on Broadway who. They are known for pretending to be someone else.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:58]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:01:58]:
And that's their skill set.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:00]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:02:00]:
I have never been known for pretending to be someone else. I'm only known for being Annie. The couple of times that people have put me in movies have been to, like, have an Easter egg of a social media person in there, and I'm terrible. I mean, I'm not great at it. It's not my shining moments because I'M not good at being anybody else. Wow.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:17]:
I love that. That's so cool.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:19]:
Wait, which. Which movies have you made cameos in?

Annie F. Downs [00:02:21]:
Thank you for asking.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:23]:
I recognize you from the moving.

Annie F. Downs [00:02:25]:
You might have seen me as the high school educator in Surprised by Oxford.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:31]:
Okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:02:31]:
Or you might have seen me as the publishing house receptionist in A Little Women's Christmas.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:37]:
Oh, my goodness.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:38]:
Wait, what?

Annie F. Downs [00:02:40]:
I have two things on IMDb hey, that's really cool.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:44]:
Was that experience surprising? Like, was the whole process of being on set and on film, was it what you expected or was it different than what you expected?

Annie F. Downs [00:02:53]:
Yeah, both times I had one line.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:56]:
What were your lines?

Annie F. Downs [00:02:57]:
Okay, let me do a little One's Christmas. Because it was more recent, I said, welcome to Orchard House Publishing. Susanna will see you now. Except, let me tell you what happened.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:08]:
So good.

Annie F. Downs [00:03:09]:
I am in the room. I mean, when you sit down, I'm at the desk. The room is full of people, right? So there's the extras that are in the lobby of the publishing house, or kind of like a bullpen of writers. And then right behind. And then there's the cameras, and then there's the director and there's the writer. And there's like, all these people just wearing all black. Right, Whatever. So.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:32]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:03:33]:
So you're looking at 30 people. One of the guys who. Men. Who is in charge of this movie is named Brian Bird, who wrote When Calls the Heart and, like, Touched by an Angel. He's a legend. He's a legend.

Leslie Johnston [00:03:47]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:03:48]:
And so the first time I say the line, when the director, Brandon Clark, who's awesome, when the director says go, I can't remember what he says. Action. I stumble over the word publishing.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:01]:
Oh, no.

Annie F. Downs [00:04:02]:
And I'm like, orchard House brush. Susanna will see you now. Brian Bird, most impressive person in the room, says, don't worry about the word publishing. Just don't say it. I was like, oh, my God, he's

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:14]:
cutting my lines down.

Annie F. Downs [00:04:16]:
He cut my line by a word. Because I stumbled over the career I have. The literal career I have. I mean, y', all, can you. I was like, I'm never going to see these people ever again. I'm just never. I'm. Get me out of here.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:29]:
That's so funny.

Annie F. Downs [00:04:30]:
That is.

Leslie Johnston [00:04:31]:
I don't know if you're a Friends fan, but the episode where Joey can't say, he's like, something about milk. And he's like, do it. And so they're like, I'll just cut it.

Annie F. Downs [00:04:42]:
Like, this was me. This was me in July of 2024.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:46]:
And that's so funny.

Annie F. Downs [00:04:48]:
So then I'll tell you very quickly the funny part about Surprised by Oxford. I was in the last scene. It's one of the first scenes you see when you watch Surprise by Oxford, but it was the last scene they filmed.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:01]:
Interesting.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:01]:
And so everyone is there. The director, his parents, the woman who wrote the book. Everyone's crying because the movie, and I can't get my line right. And they're like, take it again. Last scene of the movie.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:16]:
Oh, my gosh.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:18]:
Again? I was like, get me out of here.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:19]:
They're about to go to the wrap party. And we're like, all right.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:23]:
Yes. They're like, can we just get this. Can we. Can we get this one scene done, please?

Leslie Johnston [00:05:30]:
That's funny.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:30]:
That's funny. I don't think about that. That most oftentimes what you're seeing was not shot in the order that you're seeing it in.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:37]:
Yeah, that's right. Because even with A Little Women's Christmas, I was towards the end of the shooting days, and I am in the credits at the start of the movie.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:46]:
That's so fun.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:47]:
I am telling you, I'm in the first eight seconds. Bull rider. Longer on bulls than I lasted in that movie. It is.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:54]:
You're so funny.

Leslie Johnston [00:05:55]:
I love this.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:55]:
That's so great.

Annie F. Downs [00:05:57]:
Great. Other. I mean, it's a ridiculous, fun thing to do. And I love the people that I meet. I mean, like, I. Everybody in Little Women's Christmas is just awesome. Humans. So now to meet Brian Bird and Brandon Clark.

Annie F. Downs [00:06:08]:
Like, all these people who are, like, the best at their job.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:11]:
So cool.

Annie F. Downs [00:06:12]:
So cool.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:13]:
So cool. I'm sure they love you. I love that. So. So for people who may not be as familiar with what you do, tell. Tell us a little bit, like, where do you live? What do you do? What is. What does life look like for Annie?

Annie F. Downs [00:06:25]:
So I'm an actress, first and foremost. Feature films, first and foremost. I take the art of acting very seriously.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:32]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:06:33]:
Okay. So I live in Nashville part time. I live in New York part time right now. So I'm kind of like a dual citizen.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:39]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:06:40]:
Mostly in Nashville. And I write books. I have been doing this full time since 2012. So I have books that I've written. I travel and speak at conferences, events, churches, and I have a podcast called that Sounds Fun. And this year in 2025, on that sounds Fun, we're doing a thing we've never done before where it's called that Sounds Fun, the Seasons. And we're spending the whole year on Winter, spring, summer, and fall. And so I think it's going to be very, very fun.

Annie F. Downs [00:07:09]:
And then I also. So that's AFD Inc. That's one of my companies, handles, that's podcasting, speaking and writing. And then I co own a company called the that Sounds Fun Network, which is how we support. We give community, community and education and advertising support to about 30 different podcasts. And so that is my manager and I co own that company.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:34]:
Okay, so take us back to seven year old Annie. What did you. What did you always want to do with your life?

Annie F. Downs [00:07:42]:
Well, I got to do it. I always wanted to teach school, so I'll make it 8 year old Annie, because when I had. Whenever I was in third grade, I wanted to be my third grade teacher for the rest of my life. I mean, I went to the University of Georgia and studied teaching because I wanted to be my third grade teacher.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:57]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:07:58]:
And so. And I taught for five years. The first five years out of college, I taught at two years of fifth grade and three years of fourth grade before I started doing this full time. So that's what I always wanted to do. My sister would tell you, you know, we just have. We just announced that book, the where did TJ Go? It's coming out. And we wrote it together and we did an interview together about it. And the hosts were asking us about our childhood.

Annie F. Downs [00:08:22]:
And she was like, annie always made us play school. I was like, I did, didn't I? I forgot. I was like making y' all sit and do math problems when you barely knew how to write. It was what I always wanted to do.

Leslie Johnston [00:08:34]:
Oh, my gosh.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:35]:
So what was the transition like then when you said you did this for you? You taught for how many years before you started doing what you do now?

Annie F. Downs [00:08:42]:
Okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:42]:
And then what was the transition like? Like, what brought you into this field?

Annie F. Downs [00:08:46]:
So what happened is I was leading at the you at my church's youth group. I was one of the leaders. And the high school girls had a Bible study at my house on Monday nights.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:59]:
Okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:08:59]:
And I. One semester, for a couple of years, we would go to the local Christian bookstore and we would pick a book. The seniors would pick the book they wanted to read, and that's what we would read.

Leslie Johnston [00:09:08]:
Hmm.

Annie F. Downs [00:09:10]:
And this one semester, I took two of the seniors with me, and we couldn't find a book that day that they wanted to read. And they said, would you just tell us stories? And I was like, yeah, I can do that. And so on the weekends, I was, I was teaching fourth grade at the time. But on the weekends, I would sit at my dining room table and I would write up a lesson. And then they'd come over Monday night and I had printed it off on my school computer printer, and I would pass it out and they would read it and put it in a little notebook and we'd talk about it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:38]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:09:39]:
And at the end of that semester. Semester. And this was my fourth year of teaching out of five, at the end of that semester, one of the girls said, will you print me one more of these so I can staple it like a book and give it to a friend? And I was like, like a book?

Leslie Johnston [00:09:55]:
You're like, wait a minute.

Annie F. Downs [00:09:58]:
So then I spent the next year going to writers conferences and researching what it looks like to be a writer. And. And then I. Then I decided to move to Nashville. And tandem with moving to Nashville was, okay, if I'm going to move to Nashville, I'm going give it a go on being an author and a speaker. I'd had some speaking opportunities at my church in the youth group. And I'd done this one particular talk and a girl from youth group said, will you come do that at fca? And then someone from that FCA said, will you come do that at our church's youth group? And so I had started having experiences speaking. I thought, I'll just jump right into this job.

Annie F. Downs [00:10:33]:
Like you get a new job at a store or a restaurant.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:36]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:10:37]:
Tis not how it went. I was doing jobs off of Craigslist pretty quickly and like working part time at a nonprofit. And honestly, this became my full time job in 2012, but I wrote that Bible study in 2006. So it was a long time between when I thought, I think I want to do this and when the doors actually really opened.

Leslie Johnston [00:11:00]:
Yeah, that's a waiting period for sure. But you know what I love about each of those stories you just said was people asked for things from you, like whether it was for the book or, hey, come speak at this thing. And you were obedient to what? It's like God was almost speaking through those people. And you're also not like, oh, you know what I would love to write. It's like I just think, even myself sometimes I'm like, oh, I just want to do this. And it's like. And then we think, and then we're disappointed when it doesn't work out. But I'm like, oh, but I don't even know if God was ever really in that.

Annie F. Downs [00:11:34]:
But I love that you're like, we gotta talk about that though you're right. You're right. And I get to say to people a lot, how do I do this job that you do? And I'll say, are you serving in your local church? Because if you're doing something local, then God has a chance to open doors for you globally.

Morgan May Treuil [00:11:50]:
It's great.

Leslie Johnston [00:11:50]:
Yeah, yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:11:51]:
But you have to start. I mean, I taught high school, Sunday school for four years and no one knew my name. Right. Like I was doing that in a college town. Right, Totally. So. So serve in your local church. But the other thing I'll say to you, Leslie, is what if the open door is.

Annie F. Downs [00:12:05]:
Is not meant for success but God, the idea he gave you was the open door. Right. So I'm not sure you're wrong that I think I wanted to do something. I tried it and it didn't work. I don't directly equate that to disobedience. I directly equate that to courage. And the outcome is outside of our hands anyway. The doors God opens, nobody can close.

Annie F. Downs [00:12:25]:
And the door God's closed, nobody can open.

Morgan May Treuil [00:12:27]:
Totally.

Annie F. Downs [00:12:28]:
And so if your obedience was to do the thing, the success feels like proof of obedience. But I have not found that to be true.

Leslie Johnston [00:12:37]:
Interesting. I love that.

Annie F. Downs [00:12:38]:
Consistently. I haven't found that to be true. Consistently.

Leslie Johnston [00:12:40]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:12:41]:
So then in all of the waiting years that you had where it was like, like, okay, I thought this was going to take off maybe, maybe a little bit quicker than it did.

Annie F. Downs [00:12:47]:
And I'm.

Morgan May Treuil [00:12:48]:
And I'm doing part time jobs and Craigslist and the whole thing. Like, at what point do you. Did you at any point doubt and have questions of like, oh my gosh, God, like, is this actually the right thing that we're supposed to be headed towards? Should I turn back? Like, in that bravery and in that courage, how do you maintain faith that God's doing something?

Annie F. Downs [00:13:07]:
You're gonna love this, Morgan. So I signed with my first agent in 2009. By the end of 2010, we had gotten 47 rejections on my book.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:20]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:13:21]:
Now an agent, that's more than there are publishers. Like, that's multiple people in the same building saying no to me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:28]:
Gosh.

Annie F. Downs [00:13:29]:
And so as I got to the end of that, an agent doesn't make money until the author makes money. Right. Like, until a book is signed, I'm not paying an agent. Right. And so at the end of 2010, I was like, hey, we should break up because you're not making money and neither am I. Like, I don't know that this is what God has for me anymore. Yeah. And so we set.

Annie F. Downs [00:13:53]:
My parents helped me pay to self publish the book because it was done. And we put it up on Amazon that fall of 2010.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:00]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:14:01]:
I get a call from a pastor that I love and respect in Edinburgh, Scotland. And he said, and I write about this in my book. Let's all be brave. If anybody wants, like, all the details. But I. I get a call from him and he says, would you like to move here and help us plant a college ministry?

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:19]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:14:20]:
And I. In the moment, Morgan, I had. I had two things that I was hoping would happen in Nashville. I was hoping I'd be a writer and I was hoping I'd get married. And neither of those doors were open for me. But here comes an open door that this pastor in Scotland is inviting me. And there is no reason for me to say no. And so I kind of went, okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:14:38]:
We put this book up on Amazon. It's selling. I'm going to move to the uk and that may be the story. Like, it may have been that God wanted me to write a book. The cool thing about God is his stories are very long. At the time, I felt like this career had ended up and the next thing had started. I had no idea that at the end. So I moved to Edinburgh in 2011.

Annie F. Downs [00:15:07]:
At the end of that year, I feel pretty clearly that the Lord's like, go back to America. And I was like, oh, really? Like, okay. I kind of thought I'd be in Edinburgh from now on. Like, I kind of thought that would be my life.

Morgan May Treuil [00:15:18]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:15:19]:
And I come back here, and the week after I get back to Nashville, I get an offer on the book from a publisher.

Morgan May Treuil [00:15:25]:
Wow.

Leslie Johnston [00:15:25]:
Goodness.

Annie F. Downs [00:15:27]:
And so what actually happens with God is there are times where he pauses a dream to give you a dream. And so he paused. This one that I thought was what I wanted with my whole life was to be an author and whatever. And then he goes, you know how you've always wanted to live in Scotland? I can actually give that to you right now, and you can go do that, and then you're gonna have the rest of the dream you wanted. But I can't move to Scotland right now.

Leslie Johnston [00:15:56]:
No.

Annie F. Downs [00:15:57]:
And do that ministry. I can go there and do this job. I can't go there and plant a college ministry right now without giving up the career that I have. Absolutely.

Leslie Johnston [00:16:06]:
It's like God's way more creative. He sees so much that we don't see. And I think it's funny because I feel like we always think, oh, My calling is this destination. Like, oh, I'm gonna get to this spot. And I'm realizing the older I get, I'm like, oh, wait, there's no destination in life. It's like, it's all as cheesy as it sounds, but it's all this journey that God takes us on. And we're so end goal minded of like, I'm gonna get to the finish line. And it's like you don't actually get

Morgan May Treuil [00:16:36]:
to the finish line.

Leslie Johnston [00:16:37]:
Like, the whole thing is about a journey and there's twists and turns and it's like, it's. I mean, it's pretty incredible. That's so cool.

Annie F. Downs [00:16:44]:
Yeah, I love that.

Leslie Johnston [00:16:45]:
That's right.

Annie F. Downs [00:16:45]:
And thanks be to God that we don't get to the finish line. Because the actual reality is. One of the sadder parts of my life in Edinburgh is it's over. And. And I really had to work through a thing with my counselor about, like, what happens? My dream didn't die. It finished.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:03]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:17:03]:
What happens when a dream finishes?

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:05]:
Yeah, yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:17:06]:
And the same is probably true for teaching school. Like, that dream is probably finished for me. And that's a real different thing than a dream that dies without you getting it. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. And so the idea that the story isn't over is like, one of my favorite parts about God is that we just. The story's never. Yeah, the story is never all the way over.

Leslie Johnston [00:17:26]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:26]:
It's so cool. Annie, you and I have really similar, like, time timelines. Ish. Like, in the sense of I went to school for dance and I got my minor in education and the goal was to be a dance teacher. That was my dream. From the second that I started dancing, I didn't really care about being a dancer because I didn't feel like I was good enough to be an actual dancer. But I wanted to teach it. I loved teaching it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:49]:
And then was doing that all throughout college and then got to do it for really a semester right up until it was like doors started weirdly closing to continue doing teaching in the same way that I was. And then a door opened to jump into the local church and start doing their communications department for the first time. They didn't have one. And I know nothing about communications other than that I was a young person at the time who seemed like they could work a phone basically.

Annie F. Downs [00:18:15]:
Sure.

Leslie Johnston [00:18:15]:
In the church, if someone's young, they're like, communication. Communication.

Annie F. Downs [00:18:19]:
You are the Instagram Tik Tok. Yeah, that's right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:22]:
You can figure out Tik Tok. And so, like, made the jump over, and then it was weird. There was almost, like, no grieving process at the time for the teaching thing being coming to a close. It sort of just like, jumped into a new thing, and then life zoomed since then. But it is really funny how in the job that I'm at now with Bayside, there's a few things that God is adding back in that creative space and in that teaching space that I guess I thought that I had given up. And it's cool how in God's sovereignty, there's nothing that lacks purpose.

Annie F. Downs [00:18:52]:
Right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:52]:
Everything builds on each other. And even sometimes the things that he will, like, start to sow a seed for at this point in your life, he can revisit at a later date. And it comes full circle, and it's. It's only in a way that God can craft your story. And I'm excited that people are hearing that.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:07]:
Forget he does. You may forget what you prayed. He does not forget what you pray. Yes.

Leslie Johnston [00:19:12]:
And.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:12]:
And. And you will get to watch, I think y'.

Leslie Johnston [00:19:14]:
All.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:14]:
I'm guessing y' all are younger than me. I'm 44. Y' all are in your 33. 20. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:18]:
I'm.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:19]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:19]:
28 and 33.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:20]:
Yeah. Perfect. One of the best things you have coming over the next 15 years is all the times God reminds you he has not forgotten what you asked for.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:29]:
It's great.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:30]:
It is over. And now do I have everything I want? No. Is my life exactly the way I thought it would be? No. Did I cried yesterday in the office of a friend of mine at our church because I got my feelings hurt, Right?

Leslie Johnston [00:19:41]:
Like, yes. Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:19:44]:
I'm very me. And also, I love how God goes. Hey, you remember you actually asked for that. You asked for that when you were 24. So it was 20 years ago, but you asked for that. And now it's the right time, and you go like, oh, what A long obedience in the same direction is a Eugene Peterson quote. I'm like, just long, long relationship in the same direction with God. I'd like to think I'm obedient most of the time, but I want long direction and long relationship with him, you know, because long relationship means you get to see everything he wants to do through your life and in your life and for you.

Annie F. Downs [00:20:23]:
Right. A thing. I mean, Leslie, as the. As the not married yet in the conversation, a thing I get to say a lot to the Lord is, I know you haven't forgotten. I know you haven't forgotten.

Leslie Johnston [00:20:39]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:20:40]:
You haven't forgotten. And it feels very. It's why we need to journal. It's why we. Because then you go back and go, oh, my gosh, I wrote this down 10 years ago, and now he's doing it. You know, I mean, it is.

Leslie Johnston [00:20:56]:
How do you keep yourself, like. Because we talk about this a lot. We just. We spoke at an event a couple weeks ago where we were talking about that, thought of, like, the things that you want in life. What's that verse where the desires of your heart. The desire God will give you, the desires of your heart. And we talked about, like. But what happens when, like, you don't feel like he's giving you the desires of your heart, Whether that's, like, you want to be married or you want to have kids.

Leslie Johnston [00:21:22]:
And, like, some of those things are not happening.

Annie F. Downs [00:21:24]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:21:25]:
How do you come to terms with that? With God? But we talked about how a lot of times, like, our stories are never over, but in that moment, you can go, okay, I may not have this desire of my heart, but God actually knows that I have lots of desires of my heart. And that certain seasons, if I had gotten this thing that I wanted, I wouldn't have the opportunity to have all these other desires. Those would have never happened. I'm curious, in your life, how do you keep yourself in tune with recognizing when God is answering some of those desires of your heart? Cause I think sometimes we focus on so much on what we don't have. And how do you keep yourself, Like, I mean, you mentioned journaling, but, like, how do you. How do you operate in that when you don't have one of the things that you want?

Annie F. Downs [00:22:10]:
I mean, the good news is we want all the time now. Yes. I mean, literally, like, you ate breakfast and you're going to want lunch. Like, it is. It is every single day. And so when you get the thing you want, whether it is breakfast or a husband or the job that you want, you will suddenly have another thing you want. And so the thing we don't want to teach, that y' all do really beautifully. Y' all don't teach this.

Annie F. Downs [00:22:38]:
The thing we don't want to teach is learn how to, like, survive wanting. Because what we actually want to do is get really good at wanting. Yeah. Because it's never going away. It's never going away until eternity, when all of our dreams and desires are met. Until then, we're going to want something all the time. Now, of course, course, there are some that are more profound. My desire to eat my lunch, that's in the office fridge does not match my desire to get married.

Annie F. Downs [00:23:02]:
Those are not the same. Yeah, but the. You know, a bicycle runs on pretty much the same gears as a motorcycle, but they're very different. But if you can figure out some of the bike, you can figure out the motorcycle the same as in your wanting. If you can figure out how to put off lunch because there's something else to. To do, even when you're hungry. And then you go, you know what? This same muscle I'm strengthening is actually serving me and the other things I'm wanting. It's why fasting is such an important discipline, even.

Annie F. Downs [00:23:34]:
And it's one that the enemy wants to steal from women and convince us that we can't fast because of our history with food or our history with our bodies. But what fasting actually does is say, more than, I want this next meal. I want whatever I'm asking God for, or I want God to do whatever I believe he's going to do.

Leslie Johnston [00:23:51]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:23:51]:
And. And so we have to practice fasting, because actually, I'm fasting all the time. In some way, I am putting aside what I want for something else that I want more, which is whatever God's story is. So all of us could be married. Yeah, we could. Leslie, you're so lovely.

Leslie Johnston [00:24:09]:
You're so smart.

Annie F. Downs [00:24:11]:
There's not a world where you have to be unmarried. Today you are fasting from marrying anyone in order to wait and have the feast of marrying the right one. That's great, right? Yeah. And so we just get to practice fasting. And when we practice it for a meal, we're working out the same muscles that we're practicing for all the other things that we want. So that's one of the things. The other quick thing I'll say is another phrase I say to the Lord a lot is, I do not have to beg you for the gifts you want to give me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:45]:
Hmm.

Annie F. Downs [00:24:46]:
We don't ever have to beg. You don't beg anybody for the gifts that you want. You don't beg your parents for Christmas gifts. You don't beg your friends for birthday gifts. You do not have to beg for gifts. Gifts are gifts. And so there are times where I'll get spun up about a dude. I'm like, God, are you doing? You know? And I'm like, will you please? Will you please? And then I go, oh, you know what? I don't have to beg you for the gifts you want to give me.

Annie F. Downs [00:25:09]:
I'm just available. And so if this dude is the gift you want to give me. I'm so available to that. If this experience is the gift you want to give me, I'm so available to that I don't have to beg you for a career or a partner or children, because the Bible says all of those things are a gift. And so anything that God calls a gift, I don't have to beg for. And that has set me free in my prayer life and in my wanting to. To wait well and to learn to want well, because I. All I have to do is be the healthiest version of me and allow God.

Annie F. Downs [00:25:41]:
And that's. That's what I can't control. Am I being healthy emotionally? Am I being healthy physically? Am I being healthy spiritually? Yeah, I can control that to some degree the way I control that. I do.

Leslie Johnston [00:25:51]:
I wish I heard this 10 years ago, because I feel like back then in my dating life, there were certain people where, like, I'd be dating a guy, and I'm like, I really want this to work. Like, I. I really like this person I need. So it's like we turn ourselves into,

Annie F. Downs [00:26:06]:
like, prayer team everyone.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:07]:
Literally. It was like, how can I go? It's like that Taylor Swift song where she's talking about the chess pieces and how she, like, maneuvers everything. I'm like, that was me. It was like, oh, my gosh.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:17]:
I.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:17]:
Or I have to sacrifice, to be honest, my own convictions and my own things because I want this to work, because I don't trust that God's gonna give me what he has for me. And it's like, that's so freeing to be like, oh, I don't have to, like, strive. I don't have to alter myself. I don't have to. Yeah. Kind of go against.

Annie F. Downs [00:26:37]:
The only altering of yourself you need to do is identify the unhealthy places and take steps toward health.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:43]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:26:43]:
That's the only altering of yourself. You don't need to. You don't need. You need to. You don't change your personality. Yeah. You don't. I mean, but the only thing that is on your side of the street to do.

Annie F. Downs [00:26:52]:
Yeah. Is to be as healthy as possible.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:54]:
That's so good. So good.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:55]:
I'm glad that we're talking about this in the new year, our first New Year's episode, because I. What you said about the idea of we're all fasting, and there's this. There is this lie from the enemy that basically says, if I don't have this one particular desire that I have wanted my whole life, if I don't have that then I'm unable to do any of the other awesome things that there are in this life. And so what I wish that I had heard 10 years ago, the days where I woke up and I was longing for a season that I didn't have yet to be here right now. What I wish I had realized is, oh, there are so many other beautiful things. It doesn't take away the reality that I want something. And there can be grief with that. There can be.

Annie F. Downs [00:27:42]:
That's right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:42]:
Anger with that. And God can handle all of those things. So the encouragement here is like, press in with those thoughts and those feelings and be honest with God. But it is. It is unfortunate that we can't see the other awesome gifts or seasons or times or friendships that God's bringing because we're so blinded by the lack of a spouse or children or the job that we want or the purpose that we want. And I mentioned to you that I read Remember God, your book that you came out with in 2018. I read it in 2020, and it came to me at this crucial time in my life. It was during COVID and I was super stuck and had lots of faith questions, and it was really beautiful.

Morgan May Treuil [00:28:26]:
But you have a practice that you talk about in that book, and I might butcher it because it's been one second since I've read the book for sure. But I remember you talking about this practice that you had. It was a journaling practice, and you would list out the things about your season that made this the best season of your life. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Annie F. Downs [00:28:45]:
Yeah. You're doing exactly right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:28:48]:
And so I had this whiteboard in my living room, and I would prop it up on my chair, and every day I would go in and I would. I would. I would list. What about the. In his Covid, it was covet. There was actually not a lot of great.

Leslie Johnston [00:29:00]:
You're, like, didn't get Covid today.

Annie F. Downs [00:29:02]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:29:03]:
Tested negative.

Annie F. Downs [00:29:04]:
No.

Morgan May Treuil [00:29:04]:
I had to get, like, really creative. But it was so healing. And gratitude is a superpower, I think. Superpower for the fasting. Like, while you are fasting from. While you're fasting from a spouse waiting for the feast that God has in the right person that will come along. It's like, I think the gratitude opens your eyes to see. See all of the other pieces that you can't see right now that are really.

Annie F. Downs [00:29:29]:
But I appreciate, Morgan, that you said you don't have to let go of the grief or the sadness and the longing. Like, the thing we don't want to ever teach our friends. Listening is like, if you want something, you should stop thinking about it and you should just be satisfied. Because you know what, if you're hungry for dinner, the solution to feeling full is not to not eat.

Morgan May Treuil [00:29:48]:
Right?

Leslie Johnston [00:29:49]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:29:49]:
Right. And so. But there was something that was taught to us in the church. At least it was taught to me or caught. I. Either it was taught or I caught. It was like, when you're content with the life you have, you will get the thing you really want, but you won't until you're content. And the reality is you can be content and have longing.

Annie F. Downs [00:30:08]:
And so we don't ever want to and you aren't. But I'm just saying, I don't ever want people to hear me say, like, okay, if you have a longing, let it go and just be grateful. No, no, no. I am actively today holding what is my list going to look like that when I. When I sit down? I'm a big fan of, like, you don't have to have your life sorted out by January 1st of 2025, so give yourself a couple of weeks of January to set your rhythms and figure out what you want to do and who you want to be and what the goals are. And so in that, can you make a list of why was 2024 the best year ever? And also I got my heart broken. And also one of my companies had a terrible year. I mean, like, we had a lot to deal with in 2024.

Annie F. Downs [00:30:49]:
Yeah, both of those can be true. And I am content. That's great.

Leslie Johnston [00:30:54]:
That's so good.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:54]:
That is good contentment. The myth, the myth that people believe about contentment is that you must be fully satisfied and that a hundred percent in all things, and then you'll get

Annie F. Downs [00:31:05]:
exactly what you want.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:06]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:31:06]:
And that is so frustrating because there were times where I'd be like, someone, look, right now I'm content. Like in this one second right now.

Leslie Johnston [00:31:14]:
So true.

Annie F. Downs [00:31:15]:
I felt like this game, I couldn't win.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:17]:
Oh, well. And it's. It's actually the. The anti God. Like I. I had people tell me before I got married. Oh, well, when you stop wanting it, that's when it will come true.

Leslie Johnston [00:31:27]:
They'll come around when you least expect it. Because you're not in the one you're not wanting. Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:31:32]:
And you're like, if you think I don't look at every man on a subway to see if he has a ring on his finger, you think, I'm not showing up at a worship service. And when he's raising his hand. I'm not double checking for the heavy like you think. No, it's just not realistic. Leslie, you're exactly right.

Leslie Johnston [00:31:49]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:31:49]:
Don't pretend like you don't want something. Does that serve anybody? No, it just. It just makes you in more pain.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:55]:
Well, and to pretend like. Like you can act well enough or be content enough or be enough spiritually satisfied to the point where God will give you. That's not God's character.

Annie F. Downs [00:32:06]:
God, we had that much control, and it's putting.

Morgan May Treuil [00:32:10]:
It's putting the control back on you. And it creates a little bit of legalism and trying to establish a standard of perfection. And it takes away the beauty of the gift that God eventually does want to give you.

Annie F. Downs [00:32:22]:
If you think so, it is again, that opportunity to go like, hey, me. Me moving the chess pieces to get the job that I want or the man that I want or the life that I want is not doing my side of the street. It's doing both sides of the street. Yes. And so I. It's. So for me, this may be different for y', all, but I would love to hear. But for me, I say to God what I desire and I tell him the whole truth.

Annie F. Downs [00:32:43]:
If I'm like, I'm not the person who. If I'm dating somebody, I'm like, I hope it's anyone. God. You know, I'm like, I hope this is it. I hope we are done. I hope we are done looking right? So I say whatever is very true. I'm very honest with God. And then I am like, okay, what? Who do I need to be.

Annie F. Downs [00:33:01]:
Yes. In order to be as healthy as possible in this. And then you have to. This is why Sabbath matters, too. Because then you have to sit back and rest and go, there's nothing else for me to do. I've done everything I can do. And God knows my desires, and he opens and closes doors. And therefore.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:17]:
That's so good.

Annie F. Downs [00:33:18]:
What's gonna happen?

Leslie Johnston [00:33:19]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:19]:
Wow.

Leslie Johnston [00:33:20]:
Annie, I wanna know because we've talked about this. I love this conversation because I feel like this is all of our conversations right now.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:25]:
Yes.

Leslie Johnston [00:33:25]:
And we're getting so much wisdom from you on it. What do you think about the phrase getting your hopes up? Because I have so many friends and myself included, where it's like, I just don't want to get my hopes up. Like. And I just am, like, wrestling with that. Like, what does that look like when you have faith in God? But then there's the realistic side of some things don't work what do you say to people when they're like, I just. I kind of am done asking because I don't want to get my hopes up?

Annie F. Downs [00:33:52]:
Yeah. I guess my question back would be, what are the hopes you're getting up? Because if, in a very simple example is, I hope the University of Georgia wins the national championship, Right. And so if my hope is in that, then I have no control over that. I can't do anything. Now, I'm not using the real examples of like, do I hope I get to marry that guy? Do I hope that I get this job? Right, right, right. So, yeah, we can use real ones, too. But, like, so I guess a better example is getting married to someone for me. And I go, okay, are my hopes in that guy? Are my hopes in that story? Are my hopes in, like, this fantasy that I'm writing in my head of how I think tomorrow could go? Or are my hopes in do I actually believe that God loves me? Like, loves me and.

Annie F. Downs [00:34:47]:
And I know this is like the Christiany answer, but it is actually what will save you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:34:50]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:34:51]:
Because if you go like, well, I wanna get my hopes up that God has someone for me. What does scripture say about that? Can I actually find a scripture that says that God doesn't want me to be alone? Yeah, there actually is one. So I can kind of get my hopes up on that because scripture actually says it. So that would. Leslie. My encouragement would be, if you're sitting with a girl, you're discipling or sitting with your girls talking, and they say, I'm scared to get my hopes up. The question needs to be, what are you hoping in? Because that's the only way to kind of decipher. That's what I've had to do.

Annie F. Downs [00:35:24]:
What promises has God actually made to me? None about that guy, whoever that guy is. But God's made promises to me through his word that I believe. And Hebrews says, without faith, it's impossible to please God. And so we wanna get our hopes up. Because, you know, I'm back it up to the start of that chapter in Hebrews. It says, faith is being sure of what you have hope for. And so they all tie together. And Leslie, the other thing I'd say, I mean, Morgan, I know this is you too, but she asked the question.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:54]:
So you talked to her?

Annie F. Downs [00:35:55]:
I'm going to pointedly respond to her.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:57]:
I'm listening, too. You're good.

Annie F. Downs [00:36:00]:
I. When I get. I said this to my pastor this week on the phone. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. I want Someone else to say to God, are you pleased with Annie? And him can be like, man, you should see how she's believing me. And we can't do that if we don't get our hopes up at the risk of being wrong. So what? It'll hurt. Okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:36:31]:
Have you survived it before? For sure you have. Will you survive it again? 100%. So we risk getting our hopes up that God might be do. Because here's the.

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:41]:
Oh, y'.

Annie F. Downs [00:36:42]:
All. Okay.

Leslie Johnston [00:36:42]:
I'm.

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:42]:
All of a sudden. I love it. I'm so excited.

Annie F. Downs [00:36:45]:
The other thing is, there are times where God starts whispering to you as he's starting something. A new job, a new relationship, a new season for you. And he's whispering for you to pay attention because he actually wants to want you to watch him do what you've asked him to do.

Leslie Johnston [00:37:03]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:37:04]:
And it is a gift to those of us who hear God and for him to go, hey, I love you so much. Not only are you in the movie, I'm giving you a front row seat to the movie.

Morgan May Treuil [00:37:13]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:37:14]:
If our hopes are not up, if we are not willing to believe he might be on the move, we will miss watching the movie.

Leslie Johnston [00:37:22]:
That's so good.

Annie F. Downs [00:37:23]:
And that's an invitation not everybody gets. That is only for people in Christ who have practiced hearing God and have practiced obedience like y' all have. And so you can say, God, I want to see when you're doing the thing I want you to do. I don't just want to see when you've done it.

Leslie Johnston [00:37:39]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:37:40]:
But that requires faith in the middle.

Morgan May Treuil [00:37:42]:
That's so good.

Annie F. Downs [00:37:42]:
True.

Leslie Johnston [00:37:43]:
Because it feels like the opposite of getting your hopes up would just be getting into this negative spiral. Like, to not have any hope means not having a great life. Yeah. But it's also going, let's replace what our hope really is in. Because if your hope is in. Yes. A specific guy, a specific job, a specific child you want. Like, there's just so many things where it's like, oh, you're right.

Leslie Johnston [00:38:06]:
I think I need to reassign my hope to more of a. A broader thing that actually is going to fill me, not this person.

Annie F. Downs [00:38:14]:
Or it can get weird and specific. If you're using scripture as the base. Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:19]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:38:19]:
Yeah, right, right. And then you go like, oh, I think the Lord. And that's why we need community. That's why we need mentors. That's why we need our friends. I have one friend, my friend Eliza, and I always say to her, I tell you the weird stuff.

Leslie Johnston [00:38:31]:
We all need that friend.

Annie F. Downs [00:38:32]:
So I need that friend. Cause I need to say, I think the Lord said this. We will not know, but I want to have it. I said this with a friend of mine in New York, too. Audrey. I say for the record books, in the off chance, I need record of this. I want to say to you what I think God's doing, and I need to say it to someone else. And there have been times with Eliza and with Audrey where they have said, that is wild.

Annie F. Downs [00:38:56]:
And you are spot on. And they have said, that is wild. And I'm not sure that's God. Yeah, both and I. I need both of those. Yes, but you got to have people that you said out loud to when you're getting your hopes up too, Leslie, because you're like, yeah, I gotta tell you, I'm really excited about this job or this guy or this opportunity. And say to your friend, and when I pray, I feel like the Lord says, this, this, this. And your friend's like, go for it.

Annie F. Downs [00:39:21]:
I'm with you. I'll catch you if you fall. And I'll fly with you if you fly. Like, okay, you just gotta have. You gotta have one or two of those that you can be weird with when you're trying to listen to God and be a part of watching the movie while you're living the movie.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:33]:
Yeah. I love it. I love it.

Leslie Johnston [00:39:34]:
Annie, can I ask you a difficult question?

Annie F. Downs [00:39:36]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:39:37]:
This is a hard hitting one. How do you know? Like, how do you yourself decipher whether it's God or whether it's you? And why do you think that? God sometimes is really clear and sometimes he's like how the Bible says, like a whisper. Like, why do you. How does that. How do you come to terms with that in your mind?

Annie F. Downs [00:39:56]:
Yeah. I do not always get it right when I'm trying to listen to God. So that's. The first part, is you're not always gonna get it right because you are human. You have your desires. We are sinful. I mean, for all the reasons, we're not always gonna get it right. How do I know when it's God versus me? I mean, the.

Annie F. Downs [00:40:14]:
The low hanging fruit answer is, if it's anything unkind, it's not the Lord. If it doesn't match scripture, it's not the Lord. Right. So. So you can already kind of categorize of the 10 things the Lord may have said, five of them. Not possible. They don't match scripture there. You'll never get what you want because you'll never get what you want.

Annie F. Downs [00:40:32]:
Because it's not from God.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:34]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:40:34]:
Done. Right. So then you're left with a couple of things that God may have said to you in your quiet time or in your, In a church service. I, I'll give you this example that I, I preached at Crosspoint in December, and I use this example. I, I was trying to make a decision, some, some professional decisions, and I was at the prayer room in New York at Church of the City's prayer room. And every, every hour they have a different scripture and it was Psalm 16, and they're reading it out loud. And I. And Psalm 16:7 says, I will bless the Lord who guides me.

Annie F. Downs [00:41:07]:
And so I'm standing there praying, and I'm just saying out loud, I will bless the Lord who guides me. I will bless. And I was like, I will bless the Lord who guides me. Like, all of a sudden I knew that was God talking to me, even though it's a centuries old scripture, because I was trying to make a decision and someone had read a scripture over me that gave me the exact language I needed to say, you're gonna guide me. I will bless the Lord who guides me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:29]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:41:31]:
So having it back up in scripture goes really far for me. But then there are the times where you think, am I supposed to stop at that grocery store? Why would I need to stop at that grocery store? Or am I supposed to turn left here?

Leslie Johnston [00:41:47]:
You're like, is this an intrusive thought or is this God?

Annie F. Downs [00:41:49]:
That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And here is my hot take. I jump every time. Because on the off chance God is trying to do something.

Leslie Johnston [00:41:59]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:42:00]:
And I think there are times he lets me practice his whisper about the grocery store because of exactly what you said, Leslie. Later, he's gonna whisper about, about something. It's very significant. But because I heard him about the grocery store, I know that tone of voice.

Leslie Johnston [00:42:17]:
Absolutely. Yeah. So getting, getting God's voice wrong isn't actually like a. I think God looks at that and goes, oh, I'm so glad you tried, though. Like, I'm so glad, like, you're practicing. I've never heard that. That's.

Annie F. Downs [00:42:30]:
Now if you, if so, let me, let me give you the caveat.

Leslie Johnston [00:42:33]:
I'll say every grocery store, almost see what God needs me to do.

Morgan May Treuil [00:42:38]:
You better listen.

Annie F. Downs [00:42:40]:
The caveat to that would be the only time I want our friends listening to be really thoughtful is if you think you hear God for someone else, then, then probably take a beat. Take a beat. Yeah. And, and, and really pray and go to A leader. And, you know, so I'm not saying if you think you hear God and you need to say, I think you are gonna get in a car wreck on the way home, and I think you need to go a different way. That's probably not God telling you that. That's probably not your business. Yes, so.

Annie F. Downs [00:43:09]:
So there are caveats, but in as far as deciphering what God has for you. Yes. And trying to be long obedience in the same direction because you're in a long relationship in the same direction. I think God really honors when we try. Yeah. And there is practice to prophecy. There is something to prophecy and how you do that well in other people's lives. But I wanted to separate those because I think there is grace upon grace upon grace for us.

Annie F. Downs [00:43:35]:
Trying to hear the voice of our shepherd and follow where he leads.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:40]:
Yes. It's funny, this is kind of timely because one of the things that I wanted to prioritize in the new year, and I'm like you, I put low expectations on the New Year's resolution idea because I failed far, far too many of them to make big promises.

Annie F. Downs [00:43:59]:
Amen, sister.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:00]:
One of the things that I really wanted to take a step forward in is acquaintance and intimacy, awareness with God's voice and trying. Trying more to ask the Lord for direction or wisdom in situations that I normally would just sort of live through. Right. Like the grocery store example being a perfect example. Or, you know, we had this 6:00pm service and, and, and you know, even just like the, the small awareness of God, is there somebody in here who could really use encouragement or prayer that I could just be praying for my

Annie F. Downs [00:44:32]:
own girl, you better be ready because he loves that stuff.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:34]:
He loves us.

Leslie Johnston [00:44:35]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:35]:
But what's funny is, is I actually in my, you know, I've been a Christian now for what feels like, I guess it's probably 15 years. And it is funny how right at the beginning it feels like you're just hungry and ready for what God has. And then over time, if you're not careful, the. The flame starts to not be fanned as much and then you start to not ask as many questions or not be ready as much for what God might want to do. And, and it's funny because I think that people, myself included, are scared of asking God questions or are scared of like listening to the nudge on certain things for fear of being wrong. Like the being wrong thing is paralyzing to us, of course. And I really love what you said about the being careful of what you are hearing from. For other people, because I've experienced abuse in that regard too.

Morgan May Treuil [00:45:25]:
And that's, you know, that's super harmful. But I, I kind of want to try this year just asking God for words and wisdom in some of the small things without fear of being wrong. Because it actually takes time to learn God's voice. Like, I haven't had kids, but I watch my friends raise their kids and the commands they give to their kids, sometimes they land on ears that are willing to hear, and sometimes they do

Annie F. Downs [00:45:50]:
not land at all.

Morgan May Treuil [00:45:51]:
A kid is not hurt, heard any sort of directive. And I'm thinking, this is us with God. Like, I think we, we need to practice hearing the voice of God. And part of that involves being wrong. So what would it look like this year if we all kind of stepped into a little bit of like, I'm going to practice listening to what God has to say. I'm not going to be scared of being wrong because that means I'm learning God's voice as I'm going.

Annie F. Downs [00:46:13]:
That's right. I even, I'm, I'm with you to even. I'm trying to think of what another word besides wrong is. But the learning is right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:20]:
Learning.

Annie F. Downs [00:46:21]:
And you're right. At the six o' clock service, you say, lord, point out somebody that needs me to sit with them. You will see someone sitting alone. Is it the exact person that God needs you to say the exact right sentence to? Never.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:35]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [00:46:35]:
We don't have that much power. No, we don't have that much power. We aren't make or break. We get to partner. We are so, but if you are asking him, you will see someone.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:44]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:46:44]:
And so then you're going. And then, and then you'll have a conversation where you're like, that meant was meant to be.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:50]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:46:50]:
I, I, I, I, I had no idea. And then you go, and then for me, I'm sure y' all do this too, but for me, on the back side of any of that, I say, thank you, Lord. I want to do that as many times as you want me to do that. And, and just because I want to stay in the posture of like I asked you and you answered, wow, okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:09]:
This is, this is kind of specific in niche, but you said it. And I've been thinking about this. Can we talk about the backside of prayer? Yeah, that's a really funny phrasing. The backside of prayer.

Annie F. Downs [00:47:20]:
I need you to write that book, Morgan.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:22]:
That's a back side of prayer. I am guilty of this. Praying really hard on the front end and forgetting God on the back end altogether.

Annie F. Downs [00:47:32]:
Can you talk about your he's answered or while you're still waiting on him to answer?

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:35]:
Either way, while I'm still. Well, I would say while I'm still waiting. Probably less than. Because then I'm still. I'm still actively praying. It's more so the. After God delivers, or maybe even after. It's a no.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:48]:
And I can see myself going in one of two directions. If. If God answers and it's a yes, I tend to breeze past like nothing happened. Like an ungrateful kid who got a great birthday present and just, like, forgot to say thank you.

Annie F. Downs [00:47:59]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:59]:
On the flip side, if it. If it feels like it's a no, or maybe a lack of response appears to me to be a no, I think I can. I. I might be a powder and just.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:10]:
I am totally a powder.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:11]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:12]:
Yes, of course.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:15]:
But then my pouting is. Silence. I'm giving God this treatment.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:19]:
Yeah. I've done. I have asked for breaks from the Lord before where I said, I just. I need a minute.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:26]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:27]:
Without you, you know.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:28]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:28]:
Yes. And.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:29]:
And I don't actually want him to go anywhere, but I just. Because I am the most hurt with him.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:35]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:35]:
I just need a minute. Right. Can we just not talk about this for a second? I'm going to go see a Broadway show. I'm going to watch a movie. I'm going to eat lunch. I just need a minute. I promise we're going to talk about this, because let me just remind you of Isaiah says that God is our husband. And so if we actually believe the Bible is true, and this is true for men, women, married, single, that God is that role in your life.

Annie F. Downs [00:48:58]:
If we believe that there are times where we will not get along, but we are still committed.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:03]:
Right.

Leslie Johnston [00:49:03]:
Interesting.

Annie F. Downs [00:49:04]:
So there are times for me on the backside of prayer where I go, I would not have done it like that. And I am very unsatisfied. And I'm gonna need a minute because I know you open and close doors, and I know you can be trusted. And that can happen in a breakup. So there's the breakup version of that. There's the disappointment at work version of that. There's the my friend betrayed me version of that. But as y' all know, my nephew TJ Died after two months.

Annie F. Downs [00:49:31]:
And every single night I laid in bed and I said, jesus, he is still alive. You can still change the story. And he didn't. And so those are on the backside of those prayers. I'm gonna talk about the yes prayers in A second. Two more. David, on the backside of the nose. You have to really confront your relationship with a God who says no when you want him to say yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:49:55]:
Whether it's a death, any kind of death. Relational friend, actual. Right. Dying of a person.

Leslie Johnston [00:50:02]:
Yeah, yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:50:04]:
And so you're right. That is just my encouragement would be to remember this is as real a relationship as any other relationship you're in. And in every other relationship, you are going to get mad and hurt and disappointed and you have to communicate about it or the relationship falls to the side.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:22]:
This is so freeing for people because I. I think a lot of us, if. If we were brave enough to admit it, exist in a relationship with God where we actually kind of depersonalize him.

Annie F. Downs [00:50:33]:
Sure.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:34]:
And we put him on some sort of a, like a level that, you know, we're not allowed to have human interactions or human feelings towards God because he's God and we're humans. But you're saying the opposite. Right. Like, this is a God that we're meant to know deeply and relationally and all of the. The good ways and the hard ways. And the beauty of that is that he always remains faithful.

Annie F. Downs [00:50:52]:
That's right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:53]:
And we are the ones that are able to falter and go back and forth.

Annie F. Downs [00:50:56]:
Right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:56]:
I mean, that's.

Annie F. Downs [00:50:57]:
That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's so good. And he's really available to being in relationship with humans. Yes. He knows exactly what he signed up for. Yes.

Leslie Johnston [00:51:04]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:51:04]:
And so. And so I have found. I'm with you. I found a lot of freedom and going like, okay, if this is. If this is a perfect version of having an earthly friend, well, then I'm actually never alone because I love when my friends are around me. So it doesn't look like that I'm not buying two movie tickets, but if someone needs to do that in faith, I wish you well. That's not my journey. I'm not buying two movie tickets, but I'm also not sitting at home and being like, I have no one to talk to.

Annie F. Downs [00:51:33]:
I'm like, no, I have someone to talk to if I want to.

Leslie Johnston [00:51:35]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:51:37]:
So, yeah, it is very freeing. And that Isaiah, about God being your husband has changed my life. Because I'm like, hey, if you. If you're all the names in the Bible that you say you are, and I believe the Bible's all the way true. If you're my husband, I really need some help financially and I need some help making big decisions that I would make with a husband. And we've Asked our. We have a singles group called Single Purpose League, and we've talked about this verse a lot. And women will tell stories of like, my tire was flat and then it wasn't.

Annie F. Downs [00:52:07]:
And my dishwasher was broken, and then it wasn't. When I called on God as my husband, he changed things for me. Wow. It is the stories, y'. All. I mean, we were doing a live stream, and they were putting them in the comments, and I was just crying.

Morgan May Treuil [00:52:20]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:52:21]:
All the ways where one girl said. Just last week, a girl said, I need to buy a new car next week. And then it was like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. I had to buy a car, too. And I asked God to be there with me, and he was with me. I got a better deal than I thought I would. I needed to buy a car, too. And all of a sudden, these women who have said, and men can do this, too, and married women can do this, too.

Annie F. Downs [00:52:39]:
Morgan, this isn't just for unmarried. I have a great husband, but he has a job over there. And he's very loving, but he's flawed. Yeah. Can you help me right now?

Leslie Johnston [00:52:49]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:52:50]:
Can you help me figure this moment? Because you want to hear his voice. So you're like, I want to be wise. Can you help me be wise right now? Yeah. Because if you're my husband, we'd be sitting in this together and going, how do we do this? Well, and I would love for you to teach me that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:01]:
That's so good.

Annie F. Downs [00:53:02]:
And so it's. It is a huge. It's. It's a little bit weird. I understand it feels a little bit sideways, but it is actually gospel truth. It's really beautiful.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:13]:
So good.

Leslie Johnston [00:53:13]:
That is so good for single people and married people. Probably lessens a little bit of our expectations on the guys, too, which is kind of nice. It's like, you are not the source of all of my happiness. So if I. If God is truly my husband, that I. I mean, that's just the man

Annie F. Downs [00:53:30]:
I would have married at 22. Would have had a hard row to hoe because I needed him to be my actual everything.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:37]:
Oh, that's so cool.

Annie F. Downs [00:53:38]:
For sure. Now the guy I'll get to marry will. There's very little pressure because I am not content. Don't hear me say what I'm not saying.

Leslie Johnston [00:53:48]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:48]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:53:50]:
I am very satisfied in my love from Jesus. I got to preach last night at a women's men's prison.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:57]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:53:58]:
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Reading Psalm 23 over them and looking them in their eyes. We were all crying. It Was incarcerated women. I mean, yeah. I don't even have time to tell you how much I feel about that. But I got back in the car and I said to Jesus, I would not pick any other life.

Annie F. Downs [00:54:14]:
The idea that you let me do stuff like this for everything that I want that I don't have, if this is what you're offering in the middle of my want, I am very interested. Wow. I'm very interested. And so it's just this, like, the guy who comes and partners with this doesn't have the pressure that the guy 20 years ago had because the guy 20 years ago had to make me feel what Jesus made me feel last night when I got to serve the women in the prison.

Leslie Johnston [00:54:43]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:54:43]:
And now I'm like, no, come along and partner. But I run kind of fast. I hope you're ready. Are you ready for this life, bro? Because also, Jesus keeps up with me, and I keep up with Jesus. And so, like. Like, we've got a thing. If you're interested, I'm interested. But we're doing something that.

Leslie Johnston [00:54:58]:
That is powerful. Annie, I want to talk to you all day.

Annie F. Downs [00:55:02]:
I wish.

Leslie Johnston [00:55:02]:
I wish we had seven just tell

Annie F. Downs [00:55:04]:
you one more sentence that I think will help. I'm so sorry. You're like, we are fine on time.

Leslie Johnston [00:55:09]:
I know you are busy. You are busier than we are.

Annie F. Downs [00:55:11]:
So you give us what I want. Here's to tell you this real quick thing for married and single friends listening.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:17]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:55:18]:
A couple of years ago, I had this really unique experience with God at an IF gathering that Jenny Allen is in charge of. And the long and short of it is, I felt like God asked me, if. What if the gospel goes further, if you never get married through your life? And I was like, unsubscribe. I am not interested. Like, no, no. Yeah, right. I came back and I brought that question to my mentor and to my pastor. And they both said, I don't.

Annie F. Downs [00:55:45]:
And I said, so I think I'm never getting married. And they both said, that's not what God asked. And I was like, no, no, no. I think I'm going to be a nun. And, like, I'm going to be, like, a warrior nun, and I'm never getting married. And they're both like, you have taken God's question and you've finished it. And that's not what he asked. Wow.

Annie F. Downs [00:55:59]:
He said, are you willing for the gospel to go further through your life if you never get married? And what? And so I hold on to that question. I invite both of y' all to hold on to that question too, because what it actually means is for every day you're married, the gospel is going further through your life because you got married. You did. I mean, Morgan, you did everything you could have done to further the gospel in your single life. You did it. And then the Lord said, good. Now, the next way that you move the gospel forward with your life is in a marriage relationship is you being a wife. For Leslie and I, the Lord said, today, the gospel goes further through your life.

Annie F. Downs [00:56:42]:
If you aren't married yet, are you willing to. Are you willing for that to be today's manna? Well, yeah. And so it is so helpful every day. And also, Leslie, in dating, I'm going like, hey, if the gospel doesn't go further, I'm probably not interested.

Leslie Johnston [00:56:58]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:56:58]:
And. And I'm not. I'm not trying to just, like, interview a husband. I'm totally fine. I love holding hands. I mean, I love all of it. Right. Is great.

Annie F. Downs [00:57:06]:
I love all of that. But the. But the protection over me is I am not gonna marry someone if I don't hear him telling stories of how his life moves the gospel forward, Then that's not a good partnership, because that's the only way I'm giving this up.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:22]:
Yeah. So that is really. And you could actually put that sentence of if God. This thing. This doesn't. Whether it's getting married, whether it's job, kids, or. Yeah. Or like, you know, what we talk a ton about, too, like, anxiety and those kinds of things.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:38]:
Like, hey, if that doesn't go away, but the gospel is being stretched further because of it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:44]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [00:57:44]:
Am I willing?

Leslie Johnston [00:57:45]:
Am I willing?

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:46]:
I think. I think that's a fantastic. Not to steal your moment with God, but steal it.

Annie F. Downs [00:57:50]:
It's God's question. I'm just the one who got it. I'm happy to share it with you. That is a fantastic question.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:55]:
It is. And I. I know.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:57]:
I know.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:57]:
I keep phrasing it, like, in the new. I think just because this is our first episode of the year, and I'm like, that's.

Leslie Johnston [00:58:01]:
That's.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:01]:
That's a good question to ask this year for all the desires of your heart. Leslie was talking about anxiety. I've had a lifelong battle with a panic disorder that I've prayed and prayed for healing over, and it's never been taken away. And at this point within the past, like, three years or so, I've been. I've started to incorporate that into some of the communication and the preaching that I'm already doing. And the the way that it actually has resonated and gone deeper and further than. And. And you look at it and you're like, okay, God, I see.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:32]:
I see the bigger picture here. And I wonder for all of the people right now that are either experiencing an unmet desire, maybe even are in a little bit of, like, an earthly suffering that they. They didn't bring on, but it's here. And you're asking the question, okay, God, like, if the gospel goes further, then I'm game. I'm willing. Am I willing to.

Annie F. Downs [00:58:54]:
Probably eight days a year. I'm not willing.

Leslie Johnston [00:58:56]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:58:57]:
I'm not willing. Yep. And that is okay. And that is truthful. And I don't make decisions out of that, but I tell the truth to myself and to the Lord out of that. You don't take the time. I'd rather have what I want. So it goes okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:09]:
Call me tomorrow. Like, fine. We'll be fine. You're allowed to feel that. But my feelings don't drive. They just ride. And so you aren't going to feel a yes to that every day, but you're going to feel a yes to that when you need to.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:19]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:20]:
And.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:20]:
And.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:21]:
And we're going to be really glad we spent our lives this way.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:24]:
Okay. So, Annie, we have five more minutes with you, and I wish we had five more hours with you.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:28]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:29]:
But we want to make sure we honor your time, because, first of all, you're incredible. You know, a conversation is good when we skip the unpopular opinion.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:35]:
That's how you know it's good.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:37]:
We have to end. We have to end with the unpopular opinion.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:40]:
Let's do your unpopular opinion now, because I want to actually end with the project you have coming out on February 10th. So tell us your unpopular opinion now so that our listeners don't.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:48]:
They're, like, sitting there twitching.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:49]:
Oh, my gosh.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:50]:
They didn't do that in popular opinion.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:51]:
Yeah, well, I don't think it's unpopular, so that's the start.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:55]:
Okay.

Annie F. Downs [00:59:56]:
I think it's right and good. And my opinion is you should be sleeping in socks. I'm so proud of both of your mouths doing that.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:10]:
Wait, you have to defend yourself.

Leslie Johnston [01:00:12]:
Sleeping in socks sounds like showering in socks.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:14]:
This goes against everything I've been taught,

Annie F. Downs [01:00:19]:
like showering and so on, but it

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:25]:
does feel off to me.

Annie F. Downs [01:00:26]:
We swaddle babies to give them their best sleep. We use weighted blankets to calm our nerves. Why are you just letting your toes go? Tighten them up, swaddle their toes. You sleep better. You can kick them off in the middle of the night. I do a lot, but swaddle your toes at the start and watch how well you sleep.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:49]:
Okay. You know what?

Leslie Johnston [01:00:50]:
I might try?

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:50]:
I'll try to try it tonight. And we will report back and I need an answer.

Leslie Johnston [01:00:54]:
Best sleep of my life.

Annie F. Downs [01:00:55]:
You're gonna hate it, and I respect that, but I still try. My. My popular opinion that y' all have deemed unpopular.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:03]:
We. We will. We will try it and we'll report back.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:05]:
Great. Unpopular.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:06]:
It's a great one.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:07]:
I mean, really good.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:09]:
So with our. With our four minutes, because we're going to honor your time. With our 4 minutes left. This is the first episode of our new year. But you have a project coming out in February 18th. You touched on a little bit, but fill us in on what's coming out on February 18th.

Annie F. Downs [01:01:22]:
Yeah, we just announced it today as well, so I'm excited to get to talk to y' all about it.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:26]:
Oh, cool.

Annie F. Downs [01:01:27]:
We. My sister and her husband had a baby two summers ago that was born with a life limiting diagnosis and lived for 56 days. His name is TJ. My older nephew Sam was about 2 at the time. And we were really trying to find anything that could help Sam. Like, how do you parent or aunt through the tragic loss of a little brother. And we could not find a book that told a gospel story in the middle of a sad story. And so because I don't have a lot of skills, like acting is probably going to get retired.

Annie F. Downs [01:02:05]:
I don't have a lot of skills, but I can write a book. And so I wrote where did TJ Go with my sister to. I mean, we keep saying we. We hope nobody needs this. We hope everyone who needs it finds it.

Morgan May Treuil [01:02:17]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [01:02:17]:
You know, like you don't want any family to have. I mean, we were talking about before we started that y' all have friends that know this story too in their own lives. And you don't want anyone. You don't want any infants to die, whether it's stillborn or miscarriage or medical or something happens after their born or they're born with a life limiting diagnosis like tj. Yeah. You don't ever want that child to not live when it does happen. Because we live in a fallen world. We need resources to help walk kids through it.

Annie F. Downs [01:02:47]:
Parents don't always know how to talk about it because their grief is so substantial. And kids need pictures. They need to see and they need to envision and. And so that's why we wrote where did TJ Go to kind of help. And it tells the truth. It tells a sad story of the mom. My sister in the book is pregnant, and the baby does not come home. Now, in our actual story, TJ lived for two months, but when I wrote the book, we didn't think he would.

Annie F. Downs [01:03:14]:
And so we wrote it like, he did not come home from the hospital. And in the long run, that actually gives a lot more families access to the story than our exact story. And then the second half of the book, y' all have gotten to read it. The second half of the book is, what is TJ doing now? Where is he? What's heaven like for a kid? And. And it's really sweet. I'm really proud of it. It felt a little bit like a download from God. One of the.

Annie F. Downs [01:03:38]:
I'll give you two little Easter eggs in the book for y' all to go look through. One of them is my nephew Sam and I make up. We have a lot of imaginary friends, one might say. And one of them is a. Is named Muddy Puppy. And Muddy Puppy gets a lot of trouble. And Muddy Puppy is in the book. So you'll see him when it says something like, TJ's riding on the back of a giraffe or laughing at a muddy puppy splashing in a puddle or something like that.

Annie F. Downs [01:04:03]:
So Muddy Puppy is real to us. And then the other thing is, the illustrator Jenny Poe did this as a gift to me, and I just sobbed when I saw it. But there's a page where TJ is sitting in Jesus's lap and Jesus is reading him a book. And the book that Jesus is reading to TJ is one of my other kids books.

Morgan May Treuil [01:04:26]:
Wow.

Annie F. Downs [01:04:27]:
So she drew the COVID of one of my other books as the book that Jesus is reading to TJ in heaven.

Morgan May Treuil [01:04:33]:
This is. I can't hold it together now. I have to go back and read it again.

Annie F. Downs [01:04:37]:
I couldn't believe when I saw. I knew it right away because it has bunting on it. It's the COVID And I was like, the kindness of that illustrator, like, the gift from God to give that illustrator. That idea that Jesus would read TJ a copy of one of my books is just.

Morgan May Treuil [01:04:52]:
Is stunning. I mean, and to everybody who's. Who's listening to this, we got to read it. And immediately came to mind a couple of friends who are walking through this same thing. And what I love about this book, other than, I mean, obviously it being a cho. It being a children's book, actually, not only I think was that. Is that very impactful for children, but I think the illustrations and the way that it's written create some simplicity for adults too. Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [01:05:18]:
Grief is so complicated. And then to bring that down to such a simple place and understanding as you're flipping through this, this beautifully written picture book. But it, it explores grief and helps us understand grief as well as hope in heaven. And I think that's. It's both. Right. And so I just am thankful that you wrote it and I'm super excited for when it comes out and we get to share it with so many people.

Annie F. Downs [01:05:40]:
But I know my, my hope is someone asked me yesterday what I hope happens. And I, I hope the first few months are everyone who needs it getting it. Like we just send it to our friends and we tend. Like there's all these families that have been waiting for this resource.

Leslie Johnston [01:05:54]:
Yes.

Annie F. Downs [01:05:54]:
And then I hope the next round is all of us who don't need it in our actual homes having just five copies in the closet.

Morgan May Treuil [01:06:01]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [01:06:01]:
So that when something happens for a friend, you grab a casserole out of your freezer and you grab a book off the shelf and it's just our. So there will not after February 18, there will never be a family that doesn't have the resource the day that they need it.

Morgan May Treuil [01:06:15]:
So good.

Annie F. Downs [01:06:16]:
And I'm so thankful to God for that.

Leslie Johnston [01:06:18]:
That's amazing. When is there a pre order date? When can people.

Annie F. Downs [01:06:21]:
I mean, yeah, you can order anytime you want to. We're not doing like pre order prizes or anything. That felt a little bit weird. But what we are doing is if anyone wants me to sign a book plate that says in loving memory of the child you've lost, we've printed those book plates and they just have to go to. Where did TJ go? Dot com.

Morgan May Treuil [01:06:39]:
Right.

Annie F. Downs [01:06:39]:
And there's a place to put in what you want us to write on the book plate. So for your living children, there's one where I can just do. To Sam, Love, Annie F Downs.

Morgan May Treuil [01:06:48]:
Yeah.

Annie F. Downs [01:06:48]:
For if you want to do it in loving memory, you just tell us which one you want and what name you want on it. And I'll sign those and we'll mail. They're totally free, so we'll just mail them. We just want to support any families who walk through what we walk through and are walking through.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:02]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:02]:
Annie, this has been so amazing. So good. So good for us.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:07]:
This is so fun.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:08]:
So good for listeners.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:09]:
When can you hang out again?

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:11]:
I mean really, can you come to California?

Annie F. Downs [01:07:13]:
Do a live in Bayside aod?

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:15]:
Let's do that.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:16]:
You should come to our Thrive conference.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:17]:
Okay. We're going to, we're going to send you a message about that. Cuz we would love that. We would seriously love that.

Annie F. Downs [01:07:21]:
Let's figure it out.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:22]:
Let's figure it out.

Annie F. Downs [01:07:23]:
Thank you guys for what you do. It is really. I mean, this was a place I wanted to be today. So thank you for your.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:29]:
Well, thank you. And thank you to all of our listeners for joining us on.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:33]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:33]:
Oh, go ahead.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:34]:
Oh, I was going to say they can follow you, Annie F downs, right on Instagram.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:38]:
Perfect.

Annie F. Downs [01:07:39]:
Anywhere you need me. That's how you find me.

Morgan May Treuil [01:07:40]:
F as in fancy.

Leslie Johnston [01:07:41]:
Okay, really quick. If someone has never read a book of yours but wants to start, what would you send them to first?

Annie F. Downs [01:07:47]:
Well, I'm actually gonna agree with Morgan and say on January 6th you wanna read remember God because chapter 15 of that book happened on Epiphany. It happened today and it like changed my life. And so I would say before and remember God is the darkest book of mine. Like it's a black cover on purpose. I'll also tell you very quickly, Morgan, you know, on the COVID of the book, on the COVID remember God, there's like gold flowers and leaves. That is the pattern that is on the Archbishop of Durham's robe that you read about at the end of the book. That's the bottom of his robe. I know.

Morgan May Treuil [01:08:25]:
And you got Easter eggs.

Leslie Johnston [01:08:27]:
I know. You got Easter eggs. Taylor Swift.

Annie F. Downs [01:08:29]:
Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. Christianity. I don't know. I love it.

Leslie Johnston [01:08:34]:
I love it.

Morgan May Treuil [01:08:35]:
That's incredible.

Annie F. Downs [01:08:36]:
So that's the one I would say today to read, the one that people also love that hit New York Times, that people are still picking up all the time is called that sounds funny. The joys of being an amateur. The power of falling love and why you need a hobby. So either of those Roomber God or. That sounds fun. I would recommend.

Morgan May Treuil [01:08:50]:
So good.

Leslie Johnston [01:08:50]:
Love it.

Morgan May Treuil [01:08:51]:
Well, Annie, thank you so much for your time and thank you for listening.

Annie F. Downs [01:08:54]:
Thanks for having me and we will see you guys.

Morgan May Treuil [01:08:56]:
Next time on Am I doing this right?

Leslie Johnston [01:08:58]:
That's right.