Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
All right, you guys, welcome back to the Am I Doing this Right podcast. Morgan and Leslie here.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:04]:
That's right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:04]:
And I don't know if you knew this, Leslie, but last episode that we released was our 52nd episode, which means, you know how many weeks are in a year? 52.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:17]:
That did not click. That did not click.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:19]:
Not technically like our one year anniversary, but that's a year's worth of podcasts that we released last. Last year.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:26]:
How is that not then our one year.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:27]:
I get. Well, it is, except for the fact that our first episode aired on March. I think it was like the first week of March or something like that. So we're not technically in that week.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:39]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:39]:
But still, 52 weeks of podcast 52 is a really big deal.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:44]:
And we love it even more than we did at the beginning.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:46]:
They said we couldn't do it.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:48]:
They said this would crash and burn.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:51]:
They said all those things and none of it happened. Oh, Jake, you're here.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:54]:
Hey.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:54]:
Welcome to the Am I Doing this Right podcast.
Jake Messner [00:00:57]:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:58]:
We should say welcome back, actually.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:59]:
Yes. We brought Jake back by popular demand.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:02]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:01:03]:
Wow, I feel honored.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:05]:
Can we be honest with you for a second?
Jake Messner [00:01:06]:
I probably love that way too much.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:07]:
Can we be honest with you about something?
Jake Messner [00:01:09]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:09]:
We, when we. When we. When we brought you on last time, we did not think anything would come from that episode. We were like, oh, it could be good to have a guy perspective on to talk about dating.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:21]:
Who could we ask? We think Jake's awesome. Let's bring Jake on. We had very low expectations.
Jake Messner [00:01:27]:
I figured that because you asked me 12 hours before the episode was going to air.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:30]:
Someone canceled, and then we needed you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:34]:
That actually is what happened.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:35]:
But who did we have.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:37]:
I'm trying to remember who we had scheduled.
Jake Messner [00:01:39]:
And then it was like the night before you guys filmed, I got a text at like 9:30, like, hey, can you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:44]:
Hey.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:44]:
But you know what? That's how he rolls sometimes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:46]:
They don't need to know how this.
Jake Messner [00:01:47]:
You're definitely looking for a villain.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:49]:
They don't need to know this opportunity.
Jake Messner [00:01:51]:
To get famous and run with it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:52]:
Okay, so. But what happened with the episode is that it actually did really well. People loved it. They loved hearing your perspective, lots of feedback.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:02]:
It was like one of our most.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:03]:
Watched episodes, which, like, it was Candace, Cameron, Beret, and then you, you. Which. No one saw that coming. No one.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:12]:
But we love that. You actually said a lot of really, really good things.
Jake Messner [00:02:15]:
Thanks.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:16]:
Sorry for that. Actually, you said a lot of really.
Jake Messner [00:02:21]:
Surprisingly, surprisingly you weren't atrocious.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:23]:
But we are not talking about dating today. We're going to talk about something new.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:28]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:28]:
Which, I mean, it's kind of like in the same ballpark, but.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:31]:
But he says that on this particular subject, he feels like he has way more wisdom and experience in. Which is funny when you hear what we're talking. Last time we had you on, well, yesterday you were like, I'm actually really well educated in this topic. Which is funny when you hear the topic because you didn't feel as prepared for the dating episode, but you feel more prepared for this episode. We'll get into it in a second. Don't give it away. But before we do that, you know the drill around here because you've been here before. What is your unpopular opinion?
Jake Messner [00:03:02]:
Okay, my unpopular opinion is I always have all my iPad, my computer, my phone, all the ringers on max volume all the time. I know. I knew you guys would hate that one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:15]:
I'm really glad you brought this up because this is.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:19]:
Probably wanting to confront you about this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:21]:
This is one of my. My biggest pet peeves about you.
Jake Messner [00:03:23]:
You hate it every time you're in the office with me and I get a text and it dings in three places. You're like, I'm gonna leave.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:29]:
You're like, woof from the office.
Jake Messner [00:03:31]:
Who's Woof?
Leslie Johnston [00:03:33]:
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:34]:
Yes. Explain it, though.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:36]:
So Kelly from the office gives the idea to Ryan that, like, man, I wish I could. When, like, you never text me back. I wish that it could just ding. Your phone ding, your computer ding, all this. So he comes up with woof, which is basically like a dog barking. And it. Anytime you get anything, it's like all these different devices going off at once.
Jake Messner [00:03:54]:
I would love that.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:54]:
That's you.
Jake Messner [00:03:55]:
I would love that app.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:56]:
So, okay, I. We will. We will, as your friends, we will explain why we hate it so much. Although I don't think you really have to explain why that's very annoying. But for you. Can you explain to us why you do that?
Jake Messner [00:04:08]:
Yeah, because people are. If someone reaches out to you and has a question or wants to get a hold of you, I want to be available, especially in, like, my job. Like, I have so many people, like, work wise or students that are always trying to reach out to me or get a hold of me. I don't want to be someone that's just, like, not paying attention to him. I want to be someone who responds quickly and answers all the phone calls that I get.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:28]:
So have you always been this way?
Jake Messner [00:04:30]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:32]:
So it's not just a work thing. It's like for anybody.
Jake Messner [00:04:35]:
Yeah, for anyone. I want to be available to people who need me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:38]:
I feel like you are one of the most available people that I know.
Jake Messner [00:04:41]:
I think if you. Yeah. If you were to call, it's like.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:43]:
A compliment and a diss at the same time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:45]:
What I mean by that is I've never called you and you didn't answer. And I feel like I'm constantly hearing you take other people's calls.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:52]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:52]:
Which means that you answer theirs too.
Jake Messner [00:04:55]:
I will always pick up a phone call, even if it's a number I don't recognize.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:58]:
Would you leave a movie theater to pick up a call?
Jake Messner [00:05:01]:
Depends on who it was. But probably.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:04]:
If you were on a date, would you pick up a phone call?
Jake Messner [00:05:07]:
Depends on who it was.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:08]:
So what does that mean?
Leslie Johnston [00:05:10]:
But like. Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:05:11]:
What if I get double called? I'm always picking it up.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:14]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:05:14]:
If the same person double calls me, I'm always picking it up. Yeah. If it's. If it's like. I guess I just gauge like, if it's one of my friends or someone that I talk to often and they call me because they're just wanting to chat, they're probably not getting picked up. But if it's like someone who never reaches out to me or a student who I haven't talked to in a while and they reach out, I'm like, oh, something must be going on to where they're trying to get a hold of me. So I'm gonna be available.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:39]:
You give like crisis hotline vibes. That's what happens. You should.
Jake Messner [00:05:45]:
That's part of it, man. That's part of the job. But I don't get out of the movie theater. I just.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:50]:
Oh, you just disrupt everybody.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:52]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:53]:
And here's the thing. You can't notice from like the volume of this podcast, he cannot whisper.
Jake Messner [00:05:59]:
I'm not a great whisper. I'm not a great whisperer. We know this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:03]:
No, we know this.
Jake Messner [00:06:04]:
I either don't have either.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:06]:
I can't hear you at all.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:07]:
Yes.
Jake Messner [00:06:09]:
I'm just not a good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:10]:
Let me explain my qualms with. Okay, so your. Your thing is I want to be available. I always need to know when someone's calling me so that I can be available to them. I respect that and I respect that.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:21]:
I feel like that I go towards the opposite side of the spectrum where, like, I would say people probably think that I'm not non responsive.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:29]:
Like, via Morgan is always on do not Disturb. And I do not understand.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:34]:
Do Not Disturb is my biggest phone because I don't have my phone set to do not Disturb. But when I look at light up.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:41]:
When, like a text comes in.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:43]:
Well, it depends. So, like, my pinned. My pinned people. Which you're. You're my pinned people. Yeah, Ben. On my pin people. Those messages don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:50]:
Don't usually alert me. Like, I will. I will find out that you guys sent me a message by, like, scrolling up and being like, oh, Lesa, text me six hours ago.
Jake Messner [00:06:58]:
But for how much you're on your phone, you should do you never. When you have 61 unread messages, are you not looking? So you're on your phone constantly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:07]:
That's. You're about to say something that doesn't need to be said into the podcast. When I'm on my phone for other reasons, I don't get banners that pop up above.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:15]:
It's not farmville.
Jake Messner [00:07:17]:
Whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:17]:
It's not Farm Town takes my whole screen. I can't even see the time of day while I'm playing it.
Jake Messner [00:07:22]:
Check your messages. I don't know. Once. Check your messages.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:26]:
You don't get messages.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:28]:
This is why Benji gets mad too, because he's like, for how often you're on your phone, I don't understand why I can't get a response. And I'm like. I get that. Except for the fact that when I'm on my phone for those reasons, not farmville. When I'm. We should get. We should ask Travel Town to sponsor this podcast. I would.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:43]:
I would. I would hype them up. Anyways, this isn't about me. But what I. But what I want to tell you. This is my problem with you having all of your volumes on. You have every volume on Max. Your ringtones are obnoxious.
Jake Messner [00:07:57]:
It's a simple thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:59]:
I know, but it's. It's the. It's the sheer echo of. For some reason, like the way that your phone dings and your iPad dings, feels like it echoes throughout eternity.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:08]:
It's got echolocation.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:09]:
It's got echo location. It's bouncing off walls. It's coming back. It's hitting people square in the ears, I think. And then here's the hard part, though. You get a phone call. What's he doing? He picks up the phone call, but it's not to his ear. You pick up the phone, you put it on speakerphone, and you take all of your calls like this on speakerphone.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:31]:
So this is live.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:32]:
Jake. It's like he'll freak out because his phone.
Jake Messner [00:08:35]:
What's up? That's what I do.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:36]:
But it's like this. Yeah, you go like this. Except, yo, it's like you're. You might as well just rotate it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:41]:
Yes. Why can't you hold your phone to your ear?
Leslie Johnston [00:08:43]:
You know what I will say, though? You're onto something. You're onto something because they say to not put your phone on your face.
Jake Messner [00:08:51]:
I don't want to get my ear microwaved.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:54]:
The EMFs, that or your skin will be nicer if you don't touch your phone to your face.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:58]:
Is that why you do it, though? Or do you do it to verbally escape everybody's ears?
Jake Messner [00:09:04]:
I don't. I don't know why. Oh, you know why I do it is because usually when I'm on a phone call, I'm doing something on my phone as well. So if I'm taking a phone call, to do this feels less productive than to do this speakerphone and be typing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:18]:
Okay.
Jake Messner [00:09:19]:
Or and be playing sudoku.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:21]:
Do the people that are. That are talking to you know.
Jake Messner [00:09:23]:
No, they don't. And we've got. We've know that this has gotten me in a lot of trouble.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:26]:
You are like my nana. She takes all of her calls on speakerphone, and you have no idea. You have no idea who's in the room. You don't know what you're saying, who it's impacting.
Jake Messner [00:09:35]:
Now, the people, like anyone that's done life with me knows that every time they call me, they're on speakerphone. And I will say, there is like. Like in. As soon as I hear something where I'm like, this might be going non speaker, but if. If someone calls you and they just immediately start raining, I don't want to be like, hold on, you're on speaker. Toddlers either take it off or you take it off.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:57]:
Too late.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:58]:
You could say, hey, I'm on speaker. 5.
Jake Messner [00:10:02]:
I'm working on that. I really got caught bad a couple times in the past couple.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:05]:
You're on speaker. That's what I'm opening.
Jake Messner [00:10:07]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:08]:
What up?
Jake Messner [00:10:08]:
You're on speakerphone. That's what I need to. I'm working on that. I'm working on saying that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:12]:
Okay. I would challenge you. Maybe just keep one ringer on. Don't need to do all of them. Just one ringer is fine. Also, are. Is it. Are you at the point where, like, haptics don't affect you? Like, if.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:24]:
If your phone vibrates, you can't feel it in your pocket?
Jake Messner [00:10:28]:
If I'm sitting down, I may feel it, but if I'm moving, I'm not feeling a thing.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:33]:
I guess guys pants are a little, like, sometimes a little baggier than girls. So then you're not really feeling it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:38]:
That's true.
Jake Messner [00:10:39]:
Yeah. I just. I just don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:40]:
If you're in a meeting, will you silence them?
Leslie Johnston [00:10:45]:
No.
Jake Messner [00:10:45]:
Depends on the meeting.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:46]:
That's a hard no.
Jake Messner [00:10:47]:
Depends on the meeting or who's in it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:49]:
See, I think that this adds to your reputation of being a very loud human being.
Jake Messner [00:10:57]:
It's not a reputation. I am a loud person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:59]:
That's the truth of who I am.
Jake Messner [00:11:00]:
People know when I'm in a room.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:02]:
So the unpopular opinion is that you think totally acceptable to have all of your volumes for all of your devices on max volume.
Jake Messner [00:11:08]:
Yeah. Weddings, funerals, silenced, pretty much. I was trying to think of, like, what else.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:15]:
There are some people who agree with you, and there are some not even raging about you right now.
Jake Messner [00:11:19]:
You hate it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:20]:
Yeah, I hate it.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:21]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:22]:
I think I have a sensitivity to volume, though. So anybody who brings a lot of volume with them, now, I hear, I know that I'm loud, but anybody who brings a lot of volume with them.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:31]:
It's just a sensory overload to my ears.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:34]:
It's hard for me. Very hard.
Jake Messner [00:11:36]:
That's. I'm sorry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:37]:
That's okay, though.
Jake Messner [00:11:38]:
All the people that watch this that have called you and been like, why isn't she picking up? Now you know.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:42]:
Now you know. Always on do not disturb.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:47]:
It's really.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:47]:
It's so maddening. I'm always like, I hope someone notify any. Notify anyway. Notify anyway.
Jake Messner [00:11:52]:
I hope someone comes on this podcast and goes hard against do not disturb. I don't have time to do it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:57]:
But I don't have. I didn't choose do not disturb. You can look at my phone right now. It has nothing.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:05]:
I tried turning it on and off.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:07]:
On, off.
Jake Messner [00:12:08]:
Somehow. Somehow. You're always on do not disturb.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:10]:
You are all always on.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:11]:
My biggest pet peeve is people who run on low battery. And I have low battery right now, anyways.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:17]:
Oh, my gosh. I'm at 32.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:18]:
Yeah. You and me were just.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:19]:
The day is young.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:21]:
The day is young. And you're at 32%. I'm at 24.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:23]:
Okay, well, if you're still listening, we are talking today with Jake. We brought him on because we talked about relationships on our last one with Jake.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:33]:
Romantic relationships.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:34]:
Romantic relationships. Go back, take a listen. Now we want to talk, and we Want to talk to Jake about this? Because he's actually really good at it. Is how to have relationships with the opposite sex that are friendships.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:46]:
Guy girl friendships.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:47]:
Guy girl friendships.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:48]:
Which is why I was saying earlier that it's funny because you were like this. I'm actually way better at talking about being friends with girls versus dating girls.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:57]:
Yes. And so I'm excited to talk about this topic because I think a lot of people are on one end of the spectrum. It's like, either you are like, I'm friends with everybody, and whether I'm in a relationship or not, I have best guy friends. I'm like, my best, best friend is a guy or a girl, depending on if you're a guy or girl. Or you have the other end of the spectrum where they're like, if I'm in a relationship, I can't even talk to another guy or girl. You know, it's like some people are on end of the spectrum.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:28]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:28]:
You're already laughing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:29]:
No. And then there's the whole aspect too, where it's like, different seasons require different things of guy girl friendships. Right. So it's like, it's healthy to be friends with people of the opposite sex. And then you add in different, like, relational things, like you have a girlfriend or you have a boyfriend. And then it's like, what do guy girl friendships look like? Then what happens in marriage? Like, there's all these different phases to it. But I feel like guy girl friendships are complicated because, like, my dad would say it's impossible to be friends with someone from the opposite sex and not develop feelings for them. That's what my dad says.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:06]:
Interesting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:06]:
If. If your friendship is like, not a healthy friendship, though, Right. So it's like, how do you develop those kinds of healthy friendships where you have, like, brother, sister, cry in Christ mentality? It's healthy. It builds you up without making it unhealthy to where one person catches feelings and then it's a problem and toxic.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:29]:
Yes. So my opening question with that. With that phrase that a lot of people say or I. I hear a ton. Guys don't want to be just friends with you. What do you think about that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:40]:
That's a good question.
Jake Messner [00:14:41]:
I think there's 100 girls that I just want to be friends with.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:44]:
Really?
Jake Messner [00:14:45]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's funny, I was talking to my best friend Caleb on the way here too, and we were like, going through our lives kind of on the question of, like, can guys and girls be friends? And we were just listing off all the girls who have been like friends to us. And it's like we listed all the friends.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:59]:
Owned girls.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:00]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:15:02]:
Very much. Just friends.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:04]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:15:04]:
And there's been like, just a ton of, like a ton of them that are just really, really great people to have around. We always want to invite them. They're a part of our friend group. They're like just a part of our normal lives. But there's no feelings. And I don't think there were feelings for the most part on either end.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:21]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:15:21]:
For the guy or the girl?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:22]:
Wait, so you're saying throughout your time being friends with these girls, you never thought about the possibility of it being more. Not once.
Jake Messner [00:15:29]:
There has been there. I would say there's been both. There's been girls where I've been friends with them, and I'm like, wonder. And then there's been girls where I'm like, no need to. No need. We're friends.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:37]:
Have you ever been in a situation where you were friends with a girl and over time it backfired where you guys probably got a little bit too close? Friendship wise, one person caught feelings, the other person didn't. Has that happened to you before?
Jake Messner [00:15:52]:
Yes, when I was younger. I, like, that's what me and Cabe were talking about is I think there I. You just reach a certain age where that just doesn't happen as much. Like, I don't think that's happened since I've turned, I don't know, 22.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:05]:
Right.
Jake Messner [00:16:06]:
But before 22. Yeah. When you're in high school and you're just hang out with a cute girl all the time, eventually it's just like, I can't control my feelings for you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:14]:
Right.
Jake Messner [00:16:14]:
But I think there's just time where it's since 22 where that just doesn't happen.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:20]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:22]:
Do you feel like your guy. Your other guy friends? Because I would say you are really good at being friends with girls. A lot of guys are not. They're either like, I either like this girl or I don't like this girl.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:35]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:35]:
So would you say, like the general population of guys you excluded, do you feel like your guy friends have a lot of girlfriends that are just strictly friends.
Jake Messner [00:16:47]:
In. In friend groups? Yes. I would say the like, guy and girl friendships that just start because a guy and a girl start hanging out usually aren't even starting off on like a great foot.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:01]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:17:02]:
And I would say those usually either don't last or there's feelings there. But I would say as. As I look at like, the girls who I would consider really good friends all of them have come out of like a friend group scenario.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:13]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:17:13]:
And so I kind of have like two like lives, a life up in NorCal and a life in SoCal. And in both those places, all the girls that are a part of like what I would call is my friend group of like 10 to 15 people. Those girls I'm really good friends with, it's. The boundaries are like super clear. We both know we're good friends. And everyone, all the boys down at home would say the same thing. And I think the same thing for up here. There's a big friend group of, of like 10 to 15 of us.
Jake Messner [00:17:39]:
And I think all the guys would say they're good friends with the girls. But it's, you know, where the boundaries are. But none of the, none of the relationships that just start with like a guy and a girl just start hanging out, just them to usually ends, I don't feel like those end up in like a super healthy relationship because someone's probably invested in the other person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:57]:
Yeah. What you said is, I think, valuable because both of those circles you're talking about, the girl friends with, you're friends with them because of a group.
Jake Messner [00:18:05]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:06]:
So do you think that hanging out one on one, guy, girl, you're saying that you're just friends. Do you think hanging out solo is healthy?
Jake Messner [00:18:22]:
Probably not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:23]:
Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:24]:
Even if you're both single.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:27]:
That was, that was what I was saying. You're both, you're both single.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:31]:
Oh yeah. Because I mean, just to be clear, if you are dating someone, you probably, I mean, you'll be hanging out one on one with a lot of questions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:39]:
That's the question. Like the, because this is, this is a question of boundaries. Like you, because you obviously like guy girl friendships are healthy and you're meant like too much estrogen and, or too much testosterone in this, in a space like you need, you need the combination. Right. Like it's not good for man to be alone. Applied obviously to Adam and Eve in a romantic sense, but it also applied to them in like just a general community sense. Right. So we're meant to sharpen each other, but because we're human beings and there's the whole fallen nature of sin thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:10]:
It's like all good things also have to be boundaried. Right. So that's the question. It's like in what spaces is it healthy and life giving to have guy girl relationships? And in what spaces is it healthy, harmful? Either because it crosses a boundary that hurts somebody else or because it crosses a boundary that hurts one of you because you're in. You're in a too much of a concentrated environment and one of you doesn't feel the way the other person does. Does that make sense?
Jake Messner [00:19:37]:
Yeah. I don't know. Which. I don't. I just can't think of. Of any times where I'm hanging out with a girl that is strictly just a friend one on one for like an extended period of time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:47]:
Right.
Jake Messner [00:19:47]:
Yeah, I just, I really don't even. I can't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:50]:
Yeah, you're like, if I'm hanging out with a girl one on one, it's.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:52]:
Because I like their interest.
Jake Messner [00:19:54]:
And if there's not, you're really opening the door to that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:57]:
To that.
Jake Messner [00:19:58]:
Like, someone can read into that poorly.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:00]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:01]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:01]:
So let's talk, let's talk single people first. We can go into the relationships ones in a second. But if you're like, say I'm a single girl and I am like, I'm friends with a bunch of girls, but I want guy friendships.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:15]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:15]:
And so hanging out one on one, you're saying even as a single person, it just, it blurs the boundary where it's like, are you. How, how would you, like, give advice to someone who's single who's like, I want, like a larger group of friends. I want guys and girls. What's like, the best way to befriend a guy without either him thinking that you like him.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:38]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:39]:
Or giving him too much hope, maybe that you're interested in him? Does my question make sense?
Jake Messner [00:20:47]:
Yes, I would, I would say it's that, like, it's pretty difficult to be a girl and go out specifically looking for guy friendships. When I think of, like, all my girls that are friends back home, they're like my, like, they're a part of the friend group in the sense of they're either married in or seriously dating in. So my friends, girlfriends I would consider my really good friends or my friend's wives, I would consider, like, really good friends. Outside of, like, the people that are being brought in. Like, I don't know how many.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:20]:
Okay, so maybe not seeking out. Maybe they're not going, I want a guy friend. But like, say they, they meet this guy or couple guys and they're like, oh, they're awesome. I really want to be friends with them, but I don't know how to do that in a way that's not like, I'm either leading them on or I'm not catching feelings. Like, does that make sense?
Jake Messner [00:21:39]:
Yeah, I guess it's.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:41]:
Maybe it's impossible.
Jake Messner [00:21:43]:
Maybe it's, it may be. It may be impossible. Again, you can only, like, you can't control what other people are.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:48]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:21:49]:
Thinking of your actions, I would just say, like, if you're. There's. It seems to be that people know when you're like, you're, you're flirting or not. So you just have to be really careful about, like, walking that line between am I flirting or am I not? If you're ever asking someone to hang out one on one, regardless if it's like, hey, let's go hang out as friends, or that's not. You're just opening the door for feelings to get grown, which would ruin the friendship. So I would just say always stick to, like, hanging out in groups.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:13]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:22:13]:
And. And then just watch, like, watch the way you're acting and watch the way you're carrying yourself. If you're carrying yourself in a flirty way, a guy's probably going to read into your actions is flirting.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:22]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:23]:
You know, it's interesting. You grew up with sisters.
Jake Messner [00:22:26]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:27]:
You grew up with brothers. Benji, my husband, grew up with only sisters.
Jake Messner [00:22:32]:
And.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:32]:
And I grew up with only sisters. So to me, which we had cousins that were guys. We had family friends that were guys. But for me, the idea of, like, guy girl friendships didn't come as easy as it. As it comes for, like, the people I know who have siblings of the opposite gender. Because I think you learn how to coexist with guys from a young age in a way where you're like, this is platonic. Because it's platonic. So I know what it's like to have relations.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:58]:
They have guy friends. So then you get used to that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:01]:
To having them be over. And so I think, I think people are probably predisposed because of their environments to react in a certain way. But I'm one of those people where, because I didn't grow up with brothers or like, tons of male cousins or friends in my life, when I got to a point where I was around guys in a friendship way, it was really hard for me to, like, separate. To me, it was like everyone was a possibility. And I was nervous around all guys because I had never experienced an environment in which guys were, were like, just friends. Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:32]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:33]:
So I do, I do wonder. And this is the part where I think people probably have unpopular opinions about this. You know those movies like, what's the one with Joey King?
Leslie Johnston [00:23:43]:
Kissing Booth.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:44]:
Kissing Booth.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:45]:
Where she grows up with, like, a guy best friend.
Jake Messner [00:23:47]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:48]:
And it's the two of them against the world and their Relationship, according to the movie, is strictly, strictly platonic. But she's in love with his brother, whatever the thing is, right? And it's like they do hang out one on one, all together, all the time. My unpopular opinion is that I don't know that guys and girls should be one on one friends ever.
Jake Messner [00:24:11]:
Yeah, I would agree.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:12]:
Not because I think it's, it's harmful. Like, I don't think anything immediate like immediately is harmful. I just don't think that people are capable of like keeping that clear of boundaries. Like I think at one point, if you introduce the one on one dynamic to your friendship, one person has feelings, the other person doesn't. Maybe you flip flop at some point or you start dating, in which case that's great, your dating relationship came out of a friendship. But then at that point you're either getting married or you're breaking up, in which case, yeah, your friendship's either solidified into a marriage or your friendship is over after that. Or yeah, I mean, really it's over. I don't think you can, that's another conversation.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:49]:
Can you be friends after a breakup?
Leslie Johnston [00:24:51]:
No.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:51]:
I would say no to be on.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:53]:
How long you dated.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:54]:
Probably yes. If the relationship didn't get very far, maybe you can resume normalcy. But for the most part, I would.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:01]:
Say you're never going to resume normalcy. Like once you cross some level of a line, you're like, there's, I think there's no going back.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:09]:
I.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:09]:
There's no going back to how it was. And that's why I think it's so important to set boundaries on your friendships. Because I think as, even though I grew up with brothers, I. I grew up with other guys. Same feeling like, well, this guy could be an option. Or the more you hang out with someone, the more you figure out like, oh, they've got great qualities, they've got great this. And you start thinking, even if you don't even really like that person, you start naturally thinking like, oh, well, I really like this about them and that about them. And I remember being in a spa in college having like a crush on this guy who I was friends with and then being like, maybe I should pursue it because we hang out all the time.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:47]:
And then it's like I woke up one day being like, I actually don't like this person. But because they were around so much and there's just that natural progression of a friendship that sometimes that can happen if you're not careful.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:58]:
Yes. No, I think, I think that's a great point. Side note on the X thing though, I think even if you dated for just a little bit, you can't be friends afterwards. And here's why. Because I don't think you can ever undo feelings.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:13]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:13]:
So even if you were to resume normalcy afterwards, I don't think, I don't. I think one of you or both of you still feels the same way. And if you move on, the next person you date will not be okay with that friendship. You have to.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:28]:
100 no, you have to sever it. Yes. Yeah. I don't care who you are. If she's saying she's cool with you being friends with your ex girlfriend, she's lying.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:36]:
Yes. 100 she's a liar also. Sorry, Jake, we're not even letting you talk. We're like we just had you on just to spark some. Just my second, my second second thing I was going to say though, to your point is about what you were just saying is I think when you don't have good boundaries surrounding one on one hangouts, let's say it's two single people, you're spending time just the two of you, one on one guy, girl. And. Go ahead.
Jake Messner [00:27:01]:
That just feels like you're dating.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:02]:
It feels like you're dating. And I was gonna say, like, even if you're, you're saying, hey, we don't have feelings in this way, we're just being platonic. I think there's a part of that one on one friendship where you're having that because you're feeling like a lonely void in your life where the companionship in that way feels nice. Because even if you're saying we're not like kissing, we're not being romantic, we're not like, we're not holding hands, we're not any of these things, it's still a companionship, partnership thing where it's like you and somebody else and you're doing all these things together. So I still think it's, I think it's like dating. And then what you're doing is you're kind of numbing yourself to that. Well, that's not the right word for it. You're basically, you're satisfying part of the romantic need, but not all of the romantic need that's really smart with a person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:51]:
And then when that person starts to date somebody else, I think you're still probably just as heartbroken because the companionship part is taken away, if that makes sense.
Jake Messner [00:28:02]:
Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. I think at some point if you're hanging, if you Have a, if you're friends with someone and there's a lot of like one on one or just hanging out one on one. When you do get in, into a relationship, there's something that you are seeking or getting from a one on one relationship with someone of this, of the opposite sex that you probably should be looking for in your actual real relationship. And then that's where it's really going to clash. That's why you see girlfriends freak out and tell guys, I don't want you to be friends with any girls. It's like I just feel like you're looking for things or getting things out of a one on one relationship with a friend that you probably shouldn't be getting out of a friendship but you should be getting out of your relationship. It never works.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:43]:
Never works.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:43]:
Well.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:44]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:45]:
So Jake, you're really good at being friends with girls and having like some good boundaries, it seems. So when you found yourself in like dating relationships, how have you had to like edit your friendships with other girls? Or have you done that or have you. Be honest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:01]:
Be honest. Yeah, no, that's a good, that's a great question.
Jake Messner [00:29:03]:
I've done, done, I've done, I've done a spectrum of things. I've gone everywhere from like dating someone and probably dating a girl who was like, I don't want you hanging out with your friends. And then I peaced out to the all the way other end where it's like, it probably became a problem in our relationship of I would go hang out with my friends also not bring them around and stuff. And then it just creates this weird dynamic of you seem to really, really enjoy being with them sometimes more than me. And that would just cause really. And in those situations it's usually because I did and it would end.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:37]:
But that's so much to unpack.
Jake Messner [00:29:40]:
Yeah, that's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:41]:
Yeah, it's a good.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:42]:
Well, I mean it's a good sign, I guess. You're like, I don't want to. Yeah, yeah.
Jake Messner [00:29:47]:
I've done, I've done the whole spectrum.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:49]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:50]:
So which one worked best?
Leslie Johnston [00:29:52]:
Okay, wait, my question is so with. When you're dating someone.
Jake Messner [00:29:57]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:58]:
And they don't get along well with your friends.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:03]:
Oh yeah, it's a good point.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:07]:
Do you give them the benefit of the doubt or do you go, this is a clear. Like if they can't get along with my friends. Yeah, that'd be because if, if I, if I were dating someone who didn't get along with who I felt like were my community of people Then I would kind of feel like, well, are you really going to get along with me? Because me and them get along, you know?
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:31]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:30:32]:
Yeah. I would say it it. To me, that's just the. A big, big red flag.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:38]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:30:39]:
Maybe. Maybe even a big enough red flag for me to be like, hey, if you're saying you don't like them and there's no way you think this would work, I don't know if we can work because they are such a huge part of my life. With or without you, they will and have been and will continue to be just a huge part of my life. And I'm not going to live a double life. So either you, you know, can fit in well to that and. Or if you don't like, kind of like what you were saying, man. The people that I'm surrounded with point a lot to who I am as a person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:08]:
Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:31:08]:
If you don't like anyone I'm standing with, then you probably just don't like me or there's something about me that you don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:15]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:15]:
So follow up question to that. If what do you do when a girl is like, hey, I feel uncomfortable about a girlfriend that you have? Because sometimes like one of my friends. Yeah.
Jake Messner [00:31:27]:
When one of my friends comes to me.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:29]:
No, no, when your girlfriend comes to you and says, I feel uncomfortable about a friend.
Jake Messner [00:31:34]:
A friendship.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:35]:
In your life.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:36]:
A friendship dynamic. Because I think that happens a lot to people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:38]:
Oh, I'm sure. Especially with guys who already have well established groups of people.
Jake Messner [00:31:43]:
Yeah. I think oftentimes though, that comes out of like unhealthy boundaries in friendship. If you're dating someone and you're like, if I'm hanging out with a girl one on one and I'm like, oh, she's just a friend, it would be understandable for my girlfriend to get mad. I would be, I would. I think that would spark something in me to be angry if she had a guy best friend that she was hanging out with one on one. So fair. Probably just have a conversation with her about, hey, what would you like the boundaries to look like? Be like, hey, I really care for Sarah is one of my good friends. I really care for Sarah as a good friend.
Jake Messner [00:32:14]:
I understand that you maybe don't like the relationship. What are some boundaries that I could hold? Because the truth is she's been a part of my life for a long time or whatever. She's a really good friend of mine. On my end, the boundaries are very clear. I feel like on her end the boundaries are very clear. But to help ease your mind, what are some things that you would like to see me do less of or whatever?
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:35]:
Okay guys, we hope you are loving this episode with Jake Messner on guy and girl friendships and healthy boundaries and all of those things. Things. And we got started talking and there was just too much to fit into one episode.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:48]:
That's right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:48]:
And so we decided that we are going to go ahead and break this episode up into two parts. So you are just now finishing part one of this episode. But if you tune back in next week we will pick up where we left off with Jake Messner on guy, girl friendships, healthy relationships and we talk all different seasons. So if you feel like you haven't heard something that applies to your season, come back next week. And we have something that applies to your season of life as well. So we will see you next week on AM I Doing this Right.